Well it looks like one of the last things I will be doing as a resident of RT is voting against every incumbant. Just before we put the house on the market. In my book they have all caved into political pressure instead of doing their job. They did what they had to. BULL****.
10/16/06 - Posted from the Daily Record newsroom Related news from the Web Latest headlines by Topic:
Rockaway Twp. OKs Christ Church BY ROB JENNINGS DAILY RECORD
ROCKAWAY TWP. -- The township planning board voted 7-0-1 Monday night to approve the 5,000-member Christ Church application to build on the former Agilent site on Green Pond Road.
The board attached numerous conditions, including a limit on the number of parking spaces.
There was no audible audience reaction to the outcome of the vote.
Mayor and board member Louis Sceusi made the motion for the church's application and was seconded by member and township councilman John DiMaria.
Art Crane abstained; member Carolyn Keegan was absent.
Sceuzi, DiMaria, Vincent Brennan, Bob Santoro, Joseph B. O'Toole, David Washington and board chairman Mort Dicker voted "yes."
Opposition reaction
Founders of Voices of Rockaway Township (VORT), which formed more than three years ago to oppose the church were accepting of the board's decision. "They voted the way they had to," said Adam Salberg. Another VORT co-founder, Kim Jenkins, noted that the process was not over, because the state DEP has not yet completed its review of Christ Church's exemption from Highlands regulations.
Lisa Salberg, also a VORT co-founder, said residents had achieved a lot by speaking out. "Thankfully, the plan is considerably smaller than it would have been had the residents of Rockaway Township not come out and spoken about it. There are strong conditions on it; I am very proud of my neighbors," she said after the meeting.
Little choice
Mayor Sceusi, in making the motion for approval, expressed disappointment with Christ Church's tactics. saying that the federal lawsuit and the church's decision to use a public relations firm. was unfair to Rockaway Township. "What church or synagogue should need a public relations agency to improve its image? There was no reason to believe this town is not a law-abiding community. It is," Sceusi said.
The mayor expressed skepticism that the church would be of value to the township, and said the board was bound by the law to approve it. "The plan before us is substantially in compliance with our ordinance," adding "it would be the politically easy thing to vote against it.
Sceusi listed more than two dozen conditions for approval, including reducing the parking spaces from 1,370 to 900. That, the mayor said, would save 3.5 acres of impervious coverage at the site.
Pastor's outlook
Afterward, Pastor Ireland said that the church had already agreed to about 90 percent of the conditions, while there were others that were new to the church, such as the parking restriction. Ireland, asked whether the church would now drop its federal lawsuit, said no decision has been made. "We still have damages that were incurred," said Ireland, adding that it was "hard to quantify."
Ireland said that, ideally, construction would begin in the fall of 2007 with the church opening at the site a year later. Ireland also said he agreed with the words of board member Santoro, who had expressed a desire that both sides could have a fresh start and work together again.
Quiet crowd
About 120 residents were seated at the start of the meeting, as approximately 10 township police officers stationed in and around the building looked on. The cops were there in response to requests from board chairman Dicker and Christ Church officials.
The board first heard a 15-minute case summation from church attorney Wendy Berger before going behind closed doors at 8:20 p.m. to discuss the legal dimensions of the case.
In her summation, Berger told the board and a quiet crowd of onlookers that Christ Church's building plan should be approved. The chief objections to it, she said, an increase in traffic, and a loss of tax ratables, lacked merit. Berger said there was heavy traffic when the church's property was owned by Hewlett Packard, predecessor to Agilent Technologies, and there were 1,000 employees.
Berger reminded the board that the church's tax-exempt status cannot, by federal law, be used against its application. "You can't bar a facility, because it's tax-exempt," she said.
Berger concluded by saying the church would be a benefit to Rockaway Township. "Christ Church has a mission and its mission is uniting people to God and people to people."
The background
Monday's hearing was the 32nd on Christ Church's building plan at the 107-acre property on Green Pond Road. The 5,000-member, evangelical Christian church purchased the site in 2004 from Agilent Technologies for $10.25 million.
Christ Church's plan, highlighted by a 2,512-seat sanctuary, private K-5 school and recreational facilities, was drawing controversy even before the first planning board hearing on Dec. 15, 2003.
Residents raised a variety of objections, ranging from traffic and environmental concerns to accusations that Christ Church was providing incomplete information.
Church supporters charged that bigotry and racism -- Christ Church is predominantly black -- were a factor in local resistance.
At times, the debate centered around vitriolic banter on Internet message boards.
Rockaway Township retained nationally known attorney Marci Hamilton in anticipation of a federal lawsuit that the church eventually filed in April 2005, accusing the township of stalling and trying to undermine the building plan.
Rockaway Township denied the accusations. The lawsuit is still pending.
Testimony concluded at the 31st hearing last month and board chairman Dicker had said last week that a vote at Monday's hearing was expected.
The latest in a series of extensions granted by Christ Church was to end at month's end and the federal judge overseeing the lawsuit had indicated he wants the matter resolved, Dicker said.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Jennings can be reached at (973) 428-6667 or robjennings@gannett.com.
yes chuck - it was a crock of bull. They folded like a cheap lawn chair. The "prayer circle" after was a nice dramatic touch too. Let us hope that other legal means are brought to bare before the year is out.
I hate to say that I told you so, but I told you so. F#*k 'em all. But the problem is that we are really the ones that have actually been F#*ked!
Now, folks, good luck selling your home. I do not know how much demand that there is for Urban Country Living with extremely high taxes to boot.
On another note, maybe it is time for the good people of Rockaway Township to sue the Planning Board and its members for misrepresenting the best interest of the town in which we entrusted them. After all, irelands lawsuits put the fear of G-d in them; let us do the same thing to them. I hold them directly responsible for the total crash which is going to occur in RT property values, especially in the neck of the woods in which we live. I think that the PB should compensate us for that huge loss.
What do the rest of you think?
And, just forget all that crap about the DEP. It is senseless and naive to even talk about it. You think that the PB folded like a cheap camera, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
Well here is it 2 hrs later then my last post. I am so completely pissed off that I cant sleep. Every member of the PB should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Not a single one voted the way they knew they should have. One didnt even have the guts to show up for the meeting (the most important one of the past 3 1/2 yrs of hearings) and one abstained from voting. Shame on all of you. If all any application in RT needs is to be within the ordinances, then what do we need a PB for. Lets just have a lawyer verify that an applicant is "legal" and we can just rubber stamp every application. Every one of you knew the majority of the taxpayers in RT didnt want this project. Every one of you knew it wasnt in the best interest of RT. Every one of you knew it didnt bring a single positive thing to RT and you still voted for its approval! Every one of you should be removed from the board and in my opinion the Mayor should be removed too. I voted for him. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since it seemed like he would do the right thing, but the fact remains, it is because his administration was asleep at the wheel that we got into this mess to start with. The town should have been actively looking and helping Agilent find a suitable replacement for the property, but they just sat back fat, dumb, and happy that Agilent was paying the taxes year after year without a care in the world. Now we are paying the price. Doty, Jones, and the rest are now proven right, that the Mayor and town wasted thousands of dollars and everyone's time for the past 3 yrs. for nothing. I didnt want to believe it but once again they showed that there isnt a complete set of balls amongst them all. Rat was and is 100% correct in his assessment. RT showed its true to its history. Lots of talk and bluster and nothing to back it up when it comes down to the wire. Not a single member of the current administration is getting my vote again. Not even for dogcatcher. The BS about "conditions" is just that BS. Conditions are useless and unenforceable. It doesnt matter if you restrict him to 900 parking spaces. He will go back to 5 services a day if he wants or he will buy some other property and run shuttle buses back and forth. Rat is also right that that other useless bunch of politicos in Trenton arent going to bail us out of this one either. Anybody want to bet that the exemption was resigned as soon as the news was out? Unfreakinbelievable. I just hope I can get enough out of my house so I can retire in something other than a trailer for the rest of my life.
Here it is 2:13, and we can not sleep either. Even though I completely expected this outcome, it still has my blood pressure through the roof right now.
You see, these idiots that run this town have no clue what they have just done to all of us through their country bumpkin naivatee'. I mean, these people really have deficient intelligence. Soon, the real estate signs will be all over the place in my area of RT, maybe yours too.
My wife and I have been chatting about our next move, but we already know that we can not sell this joint for much; perhaps we can get what we paid for it 19 years ago if we are real lucky. That was our experience before the circus approval. Anytime anyone showed the slightest interest in the place (which really is quite nice but for its location) it wanned as soon as they found out about clowns circus down at the end of our street (Meriden). Basically, I think that we are just f#*ked!
Thanks, elected officials. We too shall vote against the whole lot of you next election. I would even vote for Doty if he ran against any of ya, you spineless bastards.
My sentiments exactly Rat. We have been completely sold out. I can only think that it was the town's crack legal advisor that convinced them that they had no choice. I just cant believe that any of them went along with it. It goes without saying that all applications have to be "legal". They summarily deny dozens of applications because they are redundant, have potential for future problems, or just arent believed to be in the best interest of the town. What happened with this one? Its legal so we HAVE to approve it. BS. Here's your chance Ted. Doty for Mayor next year. At least he has the balls to say what he really thinks.
As you probably know, Chuck, a member of the PB does not need to express or hold any specific reason to deny an application. And, the lawyer (Dimwit, in this case) can not coerce a member of the committee; he can only advise. Members can completely ignore his advice if they so choose.
On another note, who is running for what in RT this next comming election? Are the Dems putting up any challengers this time? I hope so.
Does anyone have the complete list of conditions? Funny how the Star Ledger had a different view from the Daily Rag on Ireland's reaction to them.
Somehow, I think this thing still has years to go until ground is broken. A unanimous vote for such a controversial project that no one on the board wants? Has to be more to the story than we are privy to. The vote happened too quick after completion of testimony. Hopefully they needed to close this chapter to move on to the next to keep this mega circus out. This aint over yet.
it's not over by a long shot. I think we all know what is coming next. In my opinion, this was the start of getting the ducks in a row so to speak. This chapter had to be closed in order to start the next one.
I too hope that is the case, but I am afraid that it may be wishful thinking on this one. This town is notorious for acting tough up front only to cave in at the end. I certainly hope there is more to the plan but realistically I think they just screwed the pooch (and us) on this one. The best move, IMHO, would have been a unanimous no vote and let the whole thing play out in court. That would have lasted years, all members would have come thru unscathed, and it would have been in accordance with the will of the majority, but it seems that this group cant even cover their own asses (or probably find them) with both hands.
I agree. What you see here is just wishful thinking. How would the mayor and town council now go back and implement Eminent Domain after just approving the project? Makes no sense. ED should have been implemented before the PB voted on the project.
And, speaking of screwing the pooch, the good folks of RT not only have a megachurch now, but still need a school for the huge housing project which was just given the go-ahead. That probably means that the township is now going to have to go and find a piece of property to purchase when the ideal location was sitting there all the while just for the taking.
Just a bunch of Butt-Monkeys running this township.
I guess I do not understand why the PB granting conditional approval negates the possibility of using 140 GPR for a school. It's not like the PB and the school board are the same body. They're two different bodies with different objectives and responsibilities. I would hope that if the acquisition of 140 GPR is deemed to be the best available means of meeting the demand for classroom space that it is fairly considered along with all other options. Isn't that the way the process is supposed to work? By the way, the school board meets tonight don't they? Does anyone know what's on the agenda?
I do not know the legal aspects of things, but assuming that the SB decides that it wants that property, wouldn't the town council have to make the ultimate decision to take it by ED? I do not think that the SB has that kind of power, but I really do not know. Powers like ED are for governing bodies like townships, bouroughs, counties, states, etc. I doubt that school boards fall into that category and thus do no enjoy that sort of power.
The BOE must make it's case to the town - if it passes legal muster for the use of ED for the greater good (and it does in my opinion) then the town would file on behalf of the BOE. The PB vote one way or the other has squat to do with a legal ED motion - all we have to do is show just cause and it's off to court we go for our approval. End of story for this mega-applicant - give him his 10meg and wave goodbye.
I believe that it would be helpful if people attended the school board monthly meetings and during the open mike period let the board know how they feel about the current proposal to spend something like $54 million for some add ons to existing schools. For that kind of money we could likely come up with a better plan for a whole new school with possibly room to consolidate other town functions. If the board realized that this much better solution would be much more likely to pass a referendum, it would help things move in that direction. I for one would definitely vote for acquistion of a centrally located parcel for a new school. On the other hand, I would definitely vote against the current proposal. Any thoughts?
rockres - thank you for connecting the dots! I think we can trust that your conclusions have already been well thought out by the powers that be. Patience friends, patience.
I have a list of the conditions there are 45 of them. The list is in my office and I do not recall all 45 so I will post it in a few days. The one condition that is likely to cause the applicant to still file legal action is the reduction in parking spaces. While I think it was the right thing to do- -I also think it is something they did not see coming. I think it was the 110% right thing to do to limit the parking - I just wish the underground parking is what was cut as that is where the environment is going to be hurt the worst.
I also love the conditions on the use of space and days of the week limitations - all directly from their testimony.
Lastly for tonight let me just say that Wendy's drama attempt at the end was really OTT - over the top - She actually wants us to think Ireland was attempting to bring people to people?? How by calling us racists because we happen to be a different color? Hey Ireland I know what color my God is... he wouldnt ask or notice.
No ladies and gentlemen this is not over, just a different chapter of the same book.
Have a nice night. Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Been thinking - - - even putting the school issue aside - - - would it not be prudent for RT to take the property by ED simply to protect the townships well system? After all, the largest public well in town is on that property. It would seem a highly defensible position for the town council to take to protect that natural resource for us. If it becomes polluted, we are in deep trouble here.
I always thought that the well was a good reason not to approve any disruption of the soil or property from the beginning, but apparently they dont care about that either.
As for the reduction in parking...I'm sure they didnt count on that. My first reaction is why would the PB make it easier for CC to meet the +25% Impervious Surface requirements of their exemption by making them reduce the IS? His royal highness will just buy another piece of property and run shuttle busses into his mega kingdom every Sunday. There is 2.18 acres for sale less then a half mile away. Very convenient.
I will look fwd to reading all of the restrictions. I am sure they will be a minor nuisance to HYH. The best condition they should have chosen would have to been to say NO. It is not in the best interest of RT to approve this project. Period.
I'm sure its not over yet, but I do believe I hear the fat lady tuning up in the background.
Here is a short list of some of the chemicals that I remember being used at the HP facility when I worked there:
Zinc Chromate
Cyanide
Trichorethylene
Alodyne Agents
Anodizing Agents
Lead and Lead Oxide
Cupric Chloride
Copper Sulphate
Ammonical Copper
etc. (Many, many more compounds were involved in the process there)
These process were carried out in the southmost (older) building. The chemical processing plant there has been filled in with concrete and is best left that way.
But, ya gotta leave it alone which is not what is going to happen.
These things are very tasty when added to your drinking water. Enjoy them as they will be available for free at your faucet after $hithead disturbs that property.
Just like Campbells Soup, they are Ummmm, Ummmm Good! And, kids really love them!
