Once again - Sorry if I offend tED et al... - The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board

Date: Sat May 29 9:26 PM, 2004

Once again - Sorry if I offend tED et al...

Date: Sun May 30 9:23 PM, 2004

The Truth
What most people want to know is whether Powell made this statement.
He did, although some other facts are incorrect.

First, Powell's statement was not made in England.
It was during a presentation to the World Economic Forum in Switzerland during January, 2003.

Second, the questioner was not the current Archbishop of Canterbury, but the former Archbishop, George Carey.

Third, Carey was not asking about "empire building."
He asked Powell whether the U.S. was relying too much on "hard power" such as military action as opposed to "soft power" such as appealing to the common values of the major religions and building trust based on those values.

Powell responded by affirming the "soft power" of values but that it was the "hard power" of the military that, for example, helped free Europe and so the "soft power" of peace and reconstruction could take place.

Powell then said, "We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works."

Date: Sun May 30 9:38 PM, 2004

Substantively, what is the difference? His relevent point remains the same.

Date: Sun May 30 10:57 PM, 2004

Thanks for your "polictally correct" and obvious "anti-troop" response. I am glad you sir are in a minority in our great country.

This was a condensed portrayl of his msg - are you suggesting our children kill-in-action are somewhat tainted by giving thier "last full measure" for a particular current party to hold power in our Government?? They do the job asked of them...you sir, I submitt, are an @ss...

Date: Sun May 30 11:19 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Freedom Rider
"Thanks for your "polictally correct" and obvious "anti-troop" response. I am glad you sir are in a minority in our great country. This was a condensed portrayl of his msg - are you suggesting our children kill-in-action are somewhat tainted by giving thier "last full measure" for a particular current party to hold power in our Government?? They do the job asked of them...you sir, I submitt, are an @ss..."

No sir. All I did was correct your post. You should research the 'internet' junk you receive as most of it is either not true (previous George Carlin quotes) or has been changed (your quote) to suit somebody's political agenda. I merely attached the quote to the TRUE SOURCE, and you have me being anti-troops? I suggest that when you choose to quote somebody, you get the quote correct. What kind of right-wing political correctness do YOU profess that you feel it proper to misquote someone and then ATTACK a person who corrects your quote.

I'd also like to point out that Colin Powell was one of the few voices of reason AGAINST the invasion of Iraq. But I guess if I state that you'll say I'm anti-troop again.

As for your 'anti-troop' comment...can I assume that you'll be celebrating Monday by downing a few beers by your BBQ? I will be hanging out with a group of ex-soldiers - all Patriot's who served their country - all people I am very proud of.

I resent your comments and find your attack very un-American. You choose to attack any who disagree with you - which I hadn't even done (all I did was correct your quote). I'll bet you would support the Archie Bunker philosophy of "American - Love it or Leave it" - and by love it, you mean - agree with the president or get out???

Have a pleasant Memorial Day. Think about the meaning of the holiday, what our soldiers have given us, and what FREEDOM truly means.

Date: Tue Jun 1 9:27 AM, 2004

Powell may be the best and brightest in the Bush cabinet, but it's obvious that his hands are tied. Please don't confuse supporting this war with supporting the troops.Of course we ALL support the troops, regardless of if we support the war.To suggest otherwise is just plain stupid. I have a son-in-law with the army in Baghdad, and I can tell you we support him and all the soldiers there 100%. The best way to support the troops is to give them a new commander in chief......one with a brain this time.One of the other best ways to support the troops is to ask them to only risk their lives in justified wars, which this Iraq war is not. And you know what, better than half the troops agree with both of the above. Bush has to go!

Date: Tue Jun 1 9:49 AM, 2004

Nope - I was working at a friends house Monday - he is overseas for another 11 months, his wife and kids need my help, a comittment I am glad give. No Archie Bunker here sport. I have my own beliefs that differ from yours - I'll not change my mind, you will not changs yours. Deal with it.

Date: Tue Jun 1 10:03 AM, 2004

You say Bush has got to go. Just exactly who do you want to replace him? Please tell us a good joke!

Date: Tue Jun 1 10:07 AM, 2004

Anyone. Bush is the worst president we have ever had.

Date: Tue Jun 1 10:12 AM, 2004

I guess that you would rather fight the war on terror here on our home grounds? I would much rather fight it at the source. Or would you rather put your head in a hole in the ground and pretend that the United Nations will take care of the problem. ROTFL!

Date: Tue Jun 1 10:15 AM, 2004

It is nice to see someone in elected office not swayed by polls. He does what his moral compass tells him to do and is a man of his convictions. For that, he is one of the strongest and best presidents that we have seen in a long time.

Date: Tue Jun 1 10:52 AM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: One of the best
"It is nice to see someone in elected office not swayed by polls. He does what his moral compass tells him to do and is a man of his convictions. For that, he is one of the strongest and best presidents that we have seen in a long time."

Well said.

Date: Tue Jun 1 12:25 PM, 2004

Iraq is a distraction from the war on terror, not part of the war on terror.It's also a waste of resources starting from the blood and lives of our servicemen and women and going right on down the line to include hardware, dollars and the suppost of our allies. It's understandable how simple minds might miss that point, since Bush did. The arrogant defending of this misguided war is a sign or cowardice from the many chickenhawks in this country, not bravery or good sense. Support the troops, give them a new leader.

Date: Tue Jun 1 12:38 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Who is going to replace him?
"I guess that you would rather fight the war on terror here on our home grounds? I would much rather fight it at the source. Or would you rather put your head in a hole in the ground and pretend that the United Nations will take care of the problem. ROTFL!"

Fighting terrorism at the source...First of all, why are we in Iraq? We diverted our energies from Afghanistan to fight George's personal war. If we had concentrated our forces in Afghanistan, we might have caught Bin Laden by now. Why are we not in the Sudan? What about Syria? How about Libya? North Korea? Cuba? Iran? These are known terrorist hotbeds according to our State Department (http://www.ch.doe.gov/offices/OCI/TerroristCountries/). Cuba is in our backyard - we should have invaded them first! Why, on one hand, do we say all terrorists must be rooted out, but yet we refuse to give Israel full permission to do what is necessary to protect their country from terrorism? Playing both sides to placate our oil-suppying Arab friends? Why did we not liberate Kuwait in Gulf War I? We allowed that country to return to their pre-war state of being run by one family with almost no human rights for women. Why did we not care about the Kuwaiti people? Could it be oil??? How about the countries NOT on our official State Dept list of nations that support terrorism...Saudi Arabia has for years funded terrorists while making empty claims to be fighting terrorism. Why are they still our best friends? Could it be OIL??? Of course not - we know that our countries policies are not driven by oil, right????

Date: Tue Jun 1 1:21 PM, 2004

Tidbits:

• Between 1992 and 1995, Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi set up a number of meetings between former Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) Deputy Director Faruq Hijazi and Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden's closest adviser. Other IIS-al Qaeda meetings occurred in Pakistan. Sometimes, al Qaeda members would visit Baghdad.

• Brig. Salim al-Ahmed, an IIS bomb maker, traveled to bin Laden's farm in Sudan and gave instructions on how to build sophisticated explosives. He was observed at the farm in the fall of 1995 and again in July 1996, the year bin Laden left Sudan and established a new base in Afghanistan.

• Mani abd-al-Rashid, IIS director, went to the farm to meet bin Laden during the same time period.
"The Iraqi intelligence chief and two other IIS officers met at bin Laden's farm and discussed bin Laden's request for IIS technical assistance in: a) making letter and parcel bombs; b) making bombs which could be placed on aircraft and detonated by changes in barometric pressure; and c) making false passport."
Bin Laden asked that al-Ahmed, who is skilled in making car bombs, stay at the farm after al-Rashid departed.

• Al-Zawahri traveled to Baghdad in February 1998 and met with one of Iraq's vice presidents.
"The goal of the visit was to arrange for coordination between Iraq and bin Laden and establish camps in an-Nasiriyah and Iraqi Kurdistan under the leadership of Abdul Aziz," the intelligence report states.

• In late 1998, Iraq sent an intelligence official to Afghanistan to seek close ties with bin Laden and the ruling Taliban.
"The source reported that the Iraqi regime was trying to broaden its cooperation with al Qaeda." A senior Iraqi intelligence official met with the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar. Thereafter, bin Laden hosted a series of meetings with Iraqi officials in Pakistan.

• After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, two al Qaeda operatives traveled to Iraq for training in chemical and biological weapons.

Date: Tue Jun 1 1:38 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Tidbits
"Tidbits: • Between 1992 and 1995, Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi set up a number of meetings between former Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) Deputy Director Faruq Hijazi and Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden's closest adviser. Other IIS-al Qaeda meetings occurred in Pakistan. Sometimes, al Qaeda members would visit Baghdad. • Brig. Salim al-Ahmed, an IIS bomb maker, traveled to bin Laden's farm in Sudan and gave instructions on how to build sophisticated explosives. He was observed at the farm in the fall of 1995 and again in July 1996, the year bin Laden left Sudan and established a new base in Afghanistan. • Mani abd-al-Rashid, IIS director, went to the farm to meet bin Laden during the same time period. "The Iraqi intelligence chief and two other IIS officers met at bin Laden's farm and discussed bin Laden's request for IIS technical assistance in: a) making letter and parcel bombs; b) making bombs which could be placed on aircraft and detonated by changes in barometric pressure; and c) making false passport." Bin Laden asked that al-Ahmed, who is skilled in making car bombs, stay at the farm after al-Rashid departed. • Al-Zawahri traveled to Baghdad in February 1998 and met with one of Iraq's vice presidents. "The goal of the visit was to arrange for coordination between Iraq and bin Laden and establish camps in an-Nasiriyah and Iraqi Kurdistan under the leadership of Abdul Aziz," the intelligence report states. • In late 1998, Iraq sent an intelligence official to Afghanistan to seek close ties with bin Laden and the ruling Taliban. "The source reported that the Iraqi regime was trying to broaden its cooperation with al Qaeda." A senior Iraqi intelligence official met with the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar. Thereafter, bin Laden hosted a series of meetings with Iraqi officials in Pakistan. • After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, two al Qaeda operatives traveled to Iraq for training in chemical and biological weapons. "

You still have not answered - why have we not invaded the Sudan? Obviously, they're heavily involved with terrorism!

Why do we call Pakistan our friends when they have clearly been involved with terrorism?

Why did we liberate Kuwait, but not free it's people - returning them to their former government which is not free? Where's the domocratically elected government and human rights in Kuwait? Sorry - wasn't needed - we only wanted their oil????

Why do we turn our back at what the Saudis have done to support terrorists?

Why do we continue to support a Saudi goverment that does not allow it's people true freedom? When will we liberate the Saudi people? When does the invasion for Saudi freedom begin?

Date: Tue Jun 1 1:47 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: The Source
" You still have not answered - why have we not invaded the Sudan? Obviously, they're heavily involved with terrorism! Why do we call Pakistan our friends when they have clearly been involved with terrorism? Why did we liberate Kuwait, but not free it's people - returning them to their former government which is not free? Where's the domocratically elected government and human rights in Kuwait? Sorry - wasn't needed - we only wanted their oil???? Why do we turn our back at what the Saudis have done to support terrorists? Why do we continue to support a Saudi goverment that does not allow it's people true freedom? When will we liberate the Saudi people? When does the invasion for Saudi freedom begin?"

You're against the war in Iraq, yet you want to wage war on all those other countries? All at once? My, you are ambitious! I'm glad we have a man in office who has a bit more patience than you! LOL!

I suggest you have some patience, for you see, those other issues are well known by our leaders and will be dealt with in good time. First things first, my friend.

You armchair presidents go off half cocked with so little information, as if you know the big picture.

How about this: If you've got it all figured out, why don't YOU run for office, or at least get yourself into a position where your vast understanding of world issues can do some good.

Oh, and before you do that, please list specifically what solutions your man, John F. Kerry, has offered to solve the terrorist threat, the Iraq situation AND all the issues that you just listed.

Remember, John Kerry's specifics are what you'll have to supply in your answer. And of course, please give some ample web references to back them up.

Thanks!