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Post Info TOPIC: Stormwater map
Is this true?

Date:
Stormwater map


 


I heard from a friend that the Agilent site is NOT affected by the new stormwater/300 ft buffer rules because it isn't in an officially designated area.


Is this true???


I was directed to this map which does seem to show no protected areas near or at the Agilent site:


http://www.state.nj.us/dep/watershedmgt/map_county.htm


What is up with this?



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not true

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the maps have been revised several times and in fact it is still being reworked.


 



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Really?

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The map says as of February 2, 2004.  Seems like the government just finished its reworking.

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C1 streams

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I believe there are two C1 streams that may effect development at 140 GPR.

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Craig Maier

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My recollection from my days working at that site is that there are two streams that node together at that property.  Both streams ultimately feed the Jersey City Reservoir located in Parsippany / Boonton.

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hasn't been mentioned, but

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if you read the regs closely, it says that redevelopment of an existing site is not covered the same as new development.  It says that in those cases, the 300 ft. buffer is reduced to 150 ft. It also says when a developer already had presented a site plan to a local zoning or planning board before the regs were put into place, that the reconstruction isn't affected at all by the new rules, only by whatever environmental regs that the local municipality already had on the books.  could this be why CC hasn't submitted any new plans?  because their lawyers and experts have already been through these new laws with a fine tooth comb and they see that CC is not affected?



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Another point

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What they may not have counted on is a possible massive cost of cleanup. There may be a huge concern with contaminated soils, as well as contamination within existing structures. Agilent would be responsible for remediation - but it could take a long time to satisfy State/Fed regulators. How long can an existing offer last??

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better?

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quote:

Originally posted by: Another point

"What they may not have counted on is a possible massive cost of cleanup. There may be a huge concern with contaminated soils, as well as contamination within existing structures. Agilent would be responsible for remediation - but it could take a long time to satisfy State/Fed regulators. How long can an existing offer last??"


 


Doesn't this play right into CC hands?  They know they are in for a long legal battle with the town.  So while that battle progresses, Agilent spends a few years cleaning up the site.  Agilent knows that at least when they're done, they'll have CC as the buyer.  So CC would have had to wait anyway to have the contaminants removed, so now they kill two birds with one stone.  Agilent would have to draw up a new contract that allows them the time to clean the place before they sell, CC agrees, so they don't have to sue Agilent for breech of contract.


OR Agilent goes through with the sale and then rents the place from CC while they proceed with cleanup.  That way CC stays where they are for a few years and has their Green Pond mortgage paid for while they wait.



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Another Point

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I am not speculating as to wether this is good or bad for CC. Just wanted to bring up this topic - I do not believe Agilent would be able to transfer property if there is an existing environmental concern.

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State Regs

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The following approvals must have been issued prior to February 2, 2004 in order for a major development to be exempt from these rules.



1.One of the following Municipal Land Use Law approvals:




a. Preliminary or final site plan approval;
b. Final municipal building or construction permit; or
c. Minor, preliminary or final subdivision approval where no subsequent site plan approval is required; and, if required



2. One of the Department permits approved under the following statutes, provided that the permit included stormwater management review:




a. Flood Hazard Area Control Act, N.J.S.A. 58:16A-50 et seq.;
b. Freshwater Wetlands Protection Act, N.J.S.A. 13:9B-1 et seq.;
c. Coastal Area Facilities Review Act, N.J.S.A. 13:19-1 et seq.;
d. Waterfront Development and Harbor Facilities Act, N.J.S.A. 12:5-3.


To date, no approvals have been given, therefore the entire project must comply with the new rules.


 



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State Regs

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Do the new rules apply to existing development?


Unless there will be activity on the site of the existing development that falls under the definition of "major development" (as described above), then these rules do not apply.


s all new development required to comply with the new Stormwater Management Rules?


No. Only new development that will ultimately result in the disturbance of one or more acres of land, or increased impervious surface by one-quarter acre or more (i.e. "major development") and is not exempt from the rules must comply with the new requirements. New development with cumulative impacts below these thresholds, major development that qualifies as exempt under N.J.A.C. 7:8-1.6 and development that does not require any local or Department permits are not required to comply with these rules.


Anything that CC will build will fall within the guidelines of  'new development' - unless, of course, they decide they can get by with less than 1 acre of land disturbed AND no more than 1/4 acre of extra parking.



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This applies to the CC situation

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What should a municipality be doing with projects currently before the local planning board?


The Stormwater Management Rules do not affect the jurisdiction or requirements of municipal planning boards under the Municipal Land Use Law. Planning Boards should continue to exercise their authority under the Municipal Land Use Law, reviewing projects for compliance with their existing stormwater management ordinances. However, planning boards should be aware that the new Stormwater Management Rules will become effective on February 2, 2004 for residential development through Residential Site Improvement Standards.



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State Regs

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quote:

Originally posted by: This applies to the CC situation

"  What should a municipality be doing with projects currently before the local planning board? The Stormwater Management Rules do not affect the jurisdiction or requirements of municipal planning boards under the Municipal Land Use Law. Planning Boards should continue to exercise their authority under the Municipal Land Use Law, reviewing projects for compliance with their existing stormwater management ordinances. However, planning boards should be aware that the new Stormwater Management Rules will become effective on February 2, 2004 for residential development through Residential Site Improvement Standards."

Correct - and since nothing was approved by February 2, 2004, anything beyond that date must meet the new standards.

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Craig Maier

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Just some common sense here.  What environmental agency is going to allow a business to set up at the Agilent site with 25,000 members and their attendent cars?  That maps into about 8,300 cars every Sunday.  Imagine the oil runoff into the town water supply?  How about the asbestos from the brakes?  How about any gas spillage? How about transmission fluid and brake fluid?  How about the silt from salting and sanding in the winter?


Who believes that the EPA is really going to allow the people of Jersey City and RT to have to drink benzene, oil, hydraulic fluid (highly carcenogenic) asbestos, Calcium Cloride, and silt?


That will never be found to be acceptable!


And since Ireland has not established his real growth projections, I believe that the town will be forced to use its own.  That number is about 25,000 +/- 2,000 within the next 4-5 years.  That is very easily demonstrated.



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Math Major

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quote:


Originally posted by: Craig Maier
"Just some common sense here.  What environmental agency is going to allow a business to set up at the Agilent site with 25,000 members and their attendent cars?  That maps into about 8,300 cars every Sunday.  Imagine the oil runoff into the town water supply?  How about the asbestos from the brakes?  How about any gas spillage? How about transmission fluid and brake fluid?  How about the silt from salting and sanding in the winter? Who believes that the EPA is really going to allow the people of Jersey City and RT to have to drink benzene, oil, hydraulic fluid (highly carcenogenic) asbestos, Calcium Cloride, and silt? That will never be found to be acceptable! And since Ireland has not established his real growth projections, I believe that the town will be forced to use its own.  That number is about 25,000 +/- 2,000 within the next 4-5 years.  That is very easily demonstrated."


According to your synagogue's members per acre ratio, the Agilent site will be able to handle over 55,000 people.  So don't worry.  It will take quite a number of years for them to pass that number, and they'll probably own the whole county by then anyway.



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Craig Maier

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Sorry Math Major.  Our Synagogue has about the same membership now as it did when I joined about 8 years ago.  Project that! 

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Matthew

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quote:

Originally posted by: Craig Maier

"Sorry Math Major.  Our Synagogue has about the same membership now as it did when I joined about 8 years ago.  Project that!  "


You didn't address his point Craig. 


Maybe it's time to pull out the ol' name calling dictionary and lay a few on these trolls, eh?


Matthew



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