Daily reminder - The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board

Date: Tue May 11 12:57 PM, 2004

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Daily reminder

Date: Tue May 11 12:58 PM, 2004

All that I can tell you is that the nature of Irelands group and its invasion of RT is what is putting the fire in our bellies. That fire is what will cause this thing to go on for many a year as I can assure you that we will allow this thing to be taken to the Supreme Court pertaining to any RLUIPA claims. We all hope that you and Christ Church enjoy the legal experience. And, you shall not win, ultimately. Go find some other town to become your servant.

BTW - our Synagogue has about 130 members (families) and is about 4,000 square feet in size on about one acre. One of our Rabbis can correct me on the stats, but that is my asessment having been a member for about 8 years.

Date: Tue May 11 1:02 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Yes relevant
" Ah - but that is a different story. Ireland is moving here with the stated goal of taking a congregation that has grown from 500 to 5000 and continuing that growth. Craig's Chabad: a) Does not have the space to grow b) Does not attempt to grow c) Already exists 3 big differences."

All irrelevant points.

Relevant point: It could grow. No legal method to stop it.

Date: Tue May 11 1:09 PM, 2004

Nothing to stop growth? Let's see - 1 acre of land...let's grow to 5000 members - that would be quite a feat to say the least. Trolls are running amok today...I'm heading for cover!!!

Date: Tue May 11 1:32 PM, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Craig Maier
"All that I can tell you is that the nature of Irelands group and its invasion of RT is what is putting the fire in our bellies. That fire is what will cause this thing to go on for many a year as I can assure you that we will allow this thing to be taken to the Supreme Court pertaining to any RLUIPA claims. We all hope that you and Christ Church enjoy the legal experience. And, you shall not win, ultimately. Go find some other town to become your servant. BTW - our Synagogue has about 130 members (families) and is about 4,000 square feet in size on about one acre. One of our Rabbis can correct me on the stats, but that is my asessment having been a member for about 8 years."

Your Synagogue:

130 families (4 per family?) = about 520 members

4,000 sq. ft.

1 acre

4000 sq. ft. of building per acre

520 members per acre

CC

937 families

about 3750 members

412,000 sq. ft.

107 acres

3850 sq. ft. of building per acre

35 members per acre

When you look at the ratios, square footage built per acre for CC is about the same as your synagogue. And when you look at total members per acre, your synagogue has WAY more people packed into that tiny space than CC will have. Maybe you’re right, maybe there should be a limit as to how many people are allowed in religious groups. Your group seems to be maxing out the available land space. Maybe you should be forced to throw some out?

But using the your synagogues ratio of members per acre, with 107 acres, CC will be able to handle about 55,640 members! Thanks for the numbers Craig, you’re proved a very good point.

Date: Tue May 11 1:43 PM, 2004

The Chabad Center does not have an application to purchase or expand any property in Rockaway Township.

Christ Church has an application to purchase 140 Green Pond Road that is currently being reviewed by the planning board.

The pb will make their decision based on the facts of Christ Church's application to purchase Green Pond Road.

Discussion of any other house of worship is not relevant to the application of Christ Church to re-develop 140 Green Pond Road.

Date: Tue May 11 1:45 PM, 2004

Please - have you seen the plans?? This thing is so far over the top it does not even merit another second of explaing to a troll like you.

Date: Tue May 11 1:46 PM, 2004

BIG DIFFERENCE: craig's synagogue (as well as our local churches) SERVE the COMMUNITY OF RT!!!

not people that live in a different county...their services go to our community...they are composed of our neighbors...they help OUR TOWN FEEL UNITED...

Date: Tue May 11 1:53 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Maria
"BIG DIFFERENCE: craig's synagogue (as well as our local churches) SERVE the COMMUNITY OF RT!!! not people that live in a different county...their services go to our community...they are composed of our neighbors...they help OUR TOWN FEEL UNITED... "

Please point out where in the RT land use laws it says that a church HAS TO SERVE the community.

waiting...

Date: Tue May 11 2:28 PM, 2004

Please tell me in the law where a town has to be a servant to the needs of a Megachurch from out of town?

Date: Tue May 11 2:28 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Please Maria
" Please point out where in the RT land use laws it says that a church HAS TO SERVE the community. waiting..."

How 'bout you point out where it I said the land use laws say that...

waiting...

oh...i didn't...so why don't you shove it...

my observation merely goes to the feelings RT residents have about ireland's plan...

a basic comparison could be - someone coming into your house...and eating all the food in your fridge...and not replenishing anything or offering you anything to compensate for what they have taken...

Date: Tue May 11 2:36 PM, 2004

Maria,

ireland has no problems with that approach whatsoever. He thinkgs our kitchens are for his taking. I, Me, My Mine. Remember when I asked him in public forum if he would be willing to help alleviate the infrastructure problems should my wife be unable to get to church on time cause of the traffic jams caused by his congregation. His answer was "No."

Date: Tue May 11 2:41 PM, 2004

craig...you are right!!!

ireland made it perfectly clear he has no regard for the residents of RT - nor for his parishoners, (the very people he SHOULD care the most for) who will need to commute or leave the church...what a great guy!!! HA!

Date: Tue May 11 2:49 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Craig Maier
"Please tell me in the law where a town has to be a servant to the needs of a Megachurch from out of town?"

Here's the law, fella:

Amendment I - US Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Boiled down:

Church buys land. Church practices religion on their land. Government can't prohibit them.

Get it?

Date: Tue May 11 2:51 PM, 2004

Maria,

What can we really expect from a guy who was featured in a rag called "Church Business Magazine"? That pretty much sums it all up. It speaks volumes.

Date: Tue May 11 2:53 PM, 2004

Craig buys land. Calls it a Church. Its really a business. Does the town have to support it?? Get it???

Date: Tue May 11 2:56 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Craig Maier
"Maria, What can we really expect from a guy who was featured in a rag called "Church Business Magazine"? That pretty much sums it all up. It speaks volumes."

Again, Craig. He's got you there. You asked for a law, he delivered. And you reply with an attempt to insult the Pastor of Christ Church?

You are WAY off your game, my man. I'd have expected you to make the "it ain't a church, it's a MEGA-CHURCH" comeback and then throw in a few expletives just to top it off!

You must be tired, man. Well, now that, I, Matthew am responding to you, you have an easy excuse: you don't reply to me, so you can go take that nap that it sounds like you really need.

Nighty, night.

Matthew

Date: Tue May 11 2:57 PM, 2004

yes...i do...

the beautiful thing about laws is that they have the ability to evolve with the changing times...as our land use laws in RT will...something to the effect that if your religious establishment is too big for the area on which you wish to build...you have two choices...pay for any road/environment and tax burdens that your establishments causes - as not to HURT the residents of that town (we all know this is NOT an option for ireland...that would take out of HIS pocket)...or two...STAY OUT and go somewhere that your establishment fits...and is wanted/needed!!!

really - it's common courtesy...

Date: Tue May 11 3:01 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Maria
"yes...i do... the beautiful thing about laws is that they have the ability to evolve with the changing times...as our land use laws in RT will...something to the effect that if your religious establishment is too big for the area on which you wish to build...you have two choices...pay for any road/environment and tax burdens that your establishments causes - as not to HURT the residents of that town (we all know this is NOT an option for ireland...that would take out of HIS pocket)...or two...STAY OUT and go somewhere that your establishment fits...and is wanted/needed!!! really - it's common courtesy..."

Hey Maria,

That's a GREAT IDEA! That new law will do well to keep the next Mega-church out of town. But since only the current laws on the books can apply to CC's application, it won't have ANY affect on them.

No retro-active laws - it's common courtesy!

Matthew

Date: Tue May 11 3:01 PM, 2004

hey craig!!!

i'm batman!!! (for today at least) :)

Date: Tue May 11 3:22 PM, 2004

Maria,

Well, I guess that I will be Robin today Maria, as far as I know and please correct me if I am wrong, we have no zoning laws allowing for Megachurches in this town. Maria, what am I missing?

Craig

Date: Tue May 11 3:33 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Good point Craig!
" quote: Your Synagogue: 130 families (4 per family?) = about 520 members 4,000 sq. ft. 1 acre 4000 sq. ft. of building per acre 520 members per acre CC 937 families about 3750 members 412,000 sq. ft. 107 acres 3850 sq. ft. of building per acre 35 members per acre When you look at the ratios, square footage built per acre for CC is about the same as your synagogue. And when you look at total members per acre, your synagogue has WAY more people packed into that tiny space than CC will have. Maybe you’re right, maybe there should be a limit as to how many people are allowed in religious groups. Your group seems to be maxing out the available land space. Maybe you should be forced to throw some out? But using the your synagogues ratio of members per acre, with 107 acres, CC will be able to handle about 55,640 members! Thanks for the numbers Craig, you’re proved a very good point."

Careful, careful, the truth does not play well here on this bbd. It is much more receptive to vague generalities that have no basis in fact.

Date: Tue May 11 3:33 PM, 2004

:quote:

Originally posted by: Craig Maier
"Maria, Well, I guess that I will be Robin today Maria, as far as I know and please correct me if I am wrong, we have no zoning laws allowing for Megachurches in this town. Maria, what am I missing? Craig"

well howdy, robin!!! :)

you're just not buying into their spin that a megachurch is just like any other church...it's like saying a cucumber IS a pickle...they have SOME similarities (face value) - a pickle is born of a cucumber...as ireland's money making scheme was born from the idea of starting a church..but they are in fact different things with different purposes/uses...hence the MEGA

i know it's not...you know it's not...a lot of people know it not...but for that - we are heathens!!!

Date: Tue May 11 3:39 PM, 2004

Yup! You have got it batman!

Date: Tue May 11 4:13 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Craig Maier
"Yup! You have got it batman!"

Well, Craig, go ahead and "talk" to Maria, and answer my questions in the process. Guess you can't even be honest with yourself! You're convinced you're not debating with me! Now THAT'S FUNNY!!!!

Date: Tue May 11 4:13 PM, 2004

Repeated:

The Chabad Center does not have an application to purchase or expand any property in Rockaway Township.
Christ Church has an application to purchase 140 Green Pond Road that is currently being reviewed by the planning board.
The pb will make their decision based on the facts of Christ Church's application to purchase Green Pond Road.
Discussion of any other house of worship is not relevant to the application of Christ Church to re-develop 140 Green Pond Road.

DO NOT be goated into 'hypothetical' arguments. They serve no purpose. Especially when you argue with one who refuses to give answers when asked direct questions.

Date: Tue May 11 4:15 PM, 2004

Is Walmart a store? Or because it's really big, it's now something else, right? So if it's not a store, what is it?

Oh, I got it! It's a PICKLE!!!!

LOL!

Date: Tue May 11 4:18 PM, 2004

But seriously.

It's a church.

No laws on the books against ANY church. Big or little, green or blue, you can't deny any if they buy the land.

Even if you HATE everything they stand for, Craig.

Matthew

Date: Tue May 11 4:18 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Matthew
" Is Walmart a store? Or because it's really big, it's now something else, right? So if it's not a store, what is it? Oh, I got it! It's a PICKLE!!!! LOL!"

Folks - The master baiter speaks again.

Repeated:

The Chabad Center does not have an application to purchase or expand any property in Rockaway Township.
Christ Church has an application to purchase 140 Green Pond Road that is currently being reviewed by the planning board.
The pb will make their decision based on the facts of Christ Church's application to purchase Green Pond Road.
Discussion of any other house of worship is not relevant to the application of Christ Church to re-develop 140 Green Pond Road.

DO NOT be baited into 'hypothetical' arguments. They serve no purpose. Especially when you argue with one who refuses to give answers when asked direct questions.

Date: Tue May 11 4:21 PM, 2004

Master Baiter !

LOL!

Come on, let's here y'all chime in and use that one!

That'll really get my goat, won't it!

And hey, you might as well, since YOU GOT NOTHING ELSE TO SAY.

No ANSWERS.

No FACTS.

No TRUTH.

nothing