basically you're missing the fact that this is NOT a religious issue...sure...you have the right to rant about you're beliefs as to where you're going when you die and biblical meanings...go right ahead...but none of us HAVE to answer your questions pertaining to religion...
my beliefs are private...what i believe or don't believe...is PRIVATE...
THIS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION...and talking about ireland having his flock fast is not a religious attack!!! it appears as if he is merely putting on a show (very similar to the movie was propaganda)...he is trying to show what devote people are in cc - they prayed and didn't eat (how many actually participated) for a day...pray...sure - i can see it...but fasting over a property deal??? fasting is a form of protest or religious practice...most religions fast or abstain from a certain food/or eating and drinking all together for a period of time every year...not for a random day...
did ireland think jesus would dry up the wetlands and double RT's size??? i'm sure jesus sees right thru this cr*p...
so please...stop trying to draw every conversation back to religion...
Originally posted by: Maria "THIS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION...and talking about ireland having his flock fast is not a religious attack!!! it appears as if he is merely putting on a show (very similar to the movie was propaganda)...he is trying to show what devote people are in cc - they prayed and didn't eat (how many actually participated) for a day...pray...sure - i can see it...but fasting over a property deal??? fasting is a form of protest or religious practice...most religions fast or abstain from a certain food/or eating and drinking all together for a period of time every year...not for a random day..."
Maria,
It is very common for Bible based Christian churches to fast when special needs arise. Fasting is a way to sacrifice "physical needs" so one can draw nearer to God.
But again, you and others attempt to cast CC in the worst possible light by ridiculing them because they have chosen to fast at this time.
Please explain why "scheduled fasting" is more appropriate than "unscheduled fasting".
christians fast during lent...muslims fast during ramadan...specific time periods...and i'm sure other religions have their times too...not on a whim...
this demonstration that ireland is putting on is to portray him and his followers as suffering godly people...no more...again - i ask...how many actually participated???
WB Matthew...I'm still waiting for an answer from you, re your statement:
Never said they [Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc..] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary.
Is it your claim is that although Jews (and Muslims and Hindus and others) are capable of doing good, they will never find heaven because they do not accept Matthew's brand of religion?
As a Jew, will I burn in hell for all eternity (according to Matthew), because I do not accept Matthew's religious views (although I do follow the JEWISH bible as best I can). Will my Indian friends all suffer along with me because they do not accept your views? Are all non born-agains destined to burn in hell - no matter how good they live their lives? It seems that according to Matthew we are. Please enlighten us Matthew.
Do the views of Matthew represent Rev Ireland's views?
Originally posted by: Matthew "Maria, You didn't answer why scheduled is better than unscheduled. As to how many participated, if you want the true answer to that question, you'd have to go to Montclair and poll the members of CC. Matthew"
neither is better...if done with true meaning...but if done as show...just the same as if someone goes to church just to show their face and doesn't take in the words...it means nothing...ireland's actions are for SHOW...just like his so called olive branch...and the movie...he's trying too hard to SHOW he is a good & fair person...rather than actually being one...
Let them fast. I suggest that we all drink lotsa coffee before the next planning board meeting to be sure that we are all "juiced up" and fully aware of what is going on there. Let the cc folks run on low blood sugar. I think that the cc fast is a great idea.
I can hear him now: "Fast for the relocation of your church " and under his breath "so you can travel 40 minutes and be surrounded by people who fought to keep you out...but my name...whoa my name...will live on in infamy"
Just another stunt by the latest PT Barnum.
Hey, Ireland, got any snake for sale in that Lexus?
quote: Originally posted by: Craig Maier "Let them fast. I suggest that we all drink lotsa coffee before the next planning board meeting to be sure that we are all "juiced up" and fully aware of what is going on there. Let the cc folks run on low blood sugar. I think that the cc fast is a great idea."
Craig,
There are many recorded occasions when your Jewish forefathers fasted. In your view, were they wasting their time?
Originally posted by: Jay R "WB Matthew...I'm still waiting for an answer from you, re your statement:Never said they [Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc..] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary. Is it your claim is that although Jews (and Muslims and Hindus and others) are capable of doing good, they will never find heaven because they do not accept Matthew's brand of religion?
Not my brand. I didn't make it up. Simply open a Bible to get the big picture and find out who the Author is.
As a Jew, will I burn in hell for all eternity (according to Matthew), because I do not accept Matthew's religious views (although I do follow the JEWISH bible as best I can). Will my Indian friends all suffer along with me because they do not accept your views? Are all non born-agains destined to burn in hell - no matter how good they live their lives? It seems that according to Matthew we are. Please enlighten us Matthew.
Again, this is not "my view" in as much as it didn't originate with me. I can post some scripture to illuminate, but my guess is that may be seen as too much of an "in your face" method. I assume you could get hold of a Bible to study the tenets of Christianity if you'd like.
Do the views of Matthew represent Rev Ireland's views?"
As I have stated many times, I am not affiliated with CC in any. So you would have to ask him yourself for this answer.
(( If you not "affiliated with CC in anyway" Why are you here...just to stir the pot???? ))
Uhmm ... the title of this messageboard is Rockaway Township Free Speech.
I certainly don't know *Matthew's* raison d'etre for being here, but I can say only for myself that I'm here because I like to keep aware of regional current events and the mindset of the regional population.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me the message board title means that discussion and debate (pro, con, neutral and/or otherwise) on all issues, views, subjects, etc etc. is welcome ... including 'stirring the pot,' if someone so wishes to do so.
To my thinking, it's the prerogative of the reader to choose to lurk, participate, or ignore whatever is posted on the messageboard.
And who gives a cr@p about this idiot telling his sheeple to fast - has nothing to do with the proposed Mega-Resort...fast all they want, it has nothing to do with law and due process.
This msg board is falling prey to arguing semantics with CC spin doctors - don't fall for this latest brand of smear folks. Law will prevail and we will see a new school ar appropiate sized business located at 140 GPR.
quote: Originally posted by: MArk B. "If you not "affiliated with CC in anyway" Why are you here...just to stir the pot????"
Mark,
Because I live close enough to the Agilent site to be affected by any traffic that would result by whatever goes there, I began to follow this case. As I reviewed the facts and arguments being raised I came to the conclusion that even though I could be affected by any traffic problems caused, I saw no legal way that CC could be denied as long as they complied with the existing regulations.
First off, what community wouldn't fight a church of this magnitude if it happened to come to their town? Especially one that holds no benefit to the town. Ireland, with all his ministries that he says he will share with Rockaway, hasn't helped Essex County. Look at the statistics. And there are very, very few members of CC in Rockaway.The residents of the community should have a say in what happens to their town, since they are the ones who support it.
Second, MY GOD, isn't there something better that Ireland can have his flock fast for, like the poor men and women who are giving their life for their country? Fast over a building?? I've never heard of such a thing. Shame!!
Third, why does Ireland think he's so important that he must have police escorts at the meetings? What about the rest of his flock? Does he only care about himself? If he's really concern about safety, why doesn't he have all his members who attend the meetings be escorted out? Or is it because he knows there is no threats and this is just more publicity for HIM! To build his kingdom seems to be his only concern. Is he concerned for his people who must make a horrible trek to get to CC if it's built in Rockaway? What they have to endure to get their kids to school?
This isn't Christ Church he's fighting for, it's his fame and fortune that he's after. Look at the facts!
Here here honestly, well said. Matthew will just skirt your effort to show the truth. I believe he is a paid shill for CC...just my opinion, I'm entitled to it!
Anyway, certain posters seem more interested in agitating and stirring the pot of religious persecution when we all know this is about the size and magnitude of change this would perpetrate upon our town. Period. Do not fall for these cheap tricks...
Originally posted by: Honestly "First off, what community wouldn't fight a church of this magnitude if it happened to come to their town?
Likely some people would fight where-ever they go. This fact proves nothing.
Especially one that holds no benefit to the town.
Subjective statement. Maybe no benefit that you can see or realize.
Ireland, with all his ministries that he says he will share with Rockaway, hasn't helped Essex County.
There is no proof of this. In fact, it's likely (and easily proved) that CC has helped at least 5000 people.
Look at the statistics. And there are very, very few members of CC in Rockaway.The residents of the community should have a say in what happens to their town, since they are the ones who support it.
They have a say, to an extent. But could residents say "no Jews allowed" if they all felt that way?
Second, MY GOD, isn't there something better that Ireland can have his flock fast for, like the poor men and women who are giving their life for their country?
You have no idea whether CC members have indeed fasted for those very issues, do you?
Fast over a building?? I've never heard of such a thing. Shame!!
Because you've "never heard of it" it's shameful? Interesting reasoning.
Third, why does Ireland think he's so important that he must have police escorts at the meetings?
See the thread where this is explained at length.
What about the rest of his flock? Does he only care about himself? If he's really concern about safety, why doesn't he have all his members who attend the meetings be escorted out?
Have they been threatened? Probably not.
Or is it because he knows there is no threats and this is just more publicity for HIM! To build his kingdom seems to be his only concern. Is he concerned for his people who must make a horrible trek to get to CC if it's built in Rockaway? What they have to endure to get their kids to school? This isn't Christ Church he's fighting for, it's his fame and fortune that he's after. Look at the facts!
This is simply your opinion of the man. Obviously, if his flock sees it this way, they will leave CC. If you believe there is a God, why would He let anyone perpetuate a charade as you claim Ireland's been doing. Jim Baker was brought down, I would imagine if Ireland's a false prophet, he won't last long either. On the other hand, if he's for real, he may make quite an impact.
Yes, SHAME for fasting for material needs. Did his members also fast for his Lexus and his $900,000 house?
And yes, if Jews, Catholics, and even non religious people wanted to build an empire in the middle of a two lane country road then the community should be allowed to fight without looking like bad guys. If this was a church with a smaller scope there would be no fight. But this megachurch can destroy this town, the environment, the roads, the emergency services, our water etc.
Crime in NJ has gone down, except for Essex County which has risen. If CC has helped 5,000 people, then I guess it's their own people. So Ireland's help to Rockaway is only if they are members of the church. That isn't what I understood when he proposed this to our town.
We don't have to wait and see if Ireland will fall cause he won't be in our town and we won't care. But we do have compassion for the poor people who have given their hard earn money to a man who pretends to speak in the Lord's name, but is actually trying to make a name for himself.
He wasn't threatened. There's no need. We aren't that way. We are fighting by the rules for our community. He just has to put on a big show or he never would have tried to build his empire in a place where there aren't members. He would have built it in Newark where there wouldn't have been a word said and would have been appreciated by the people for building up their town that so badly needs support.
WB Matthew...I'm still waiting for an answer from you, re your statement:Never said they [Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc..] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary. Is it your claim is that although Jews (and Muslims and Hindus and others) are capable of doing good, they will never find heaven because they do not accept Matthew's brand of religion?
Not my brand. I didn't make it up. Simply open a Bible to get the big picture and find out who the Author is.
And you also ignored the question Matthew. Will my Jewish soul rot in hell because I don't agree with your small-minded religion? Will my Indian friends' souls rot in hell because THEY don't agree with your small-minded religion?
I love your statement - they're not getting into heaven as far as you can see. Tell me Matthew, have you seen anyone in heaven? Have you seen some of us Jews rotting in hell because we don't believe Jesus was the son of G-d? Pretty arrogant of you to assume the position of guardian of the gates of heaven / Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc... need not apply.
As a Jew, will I burn in hell for all eternity (according to Matthew), because I do not accept Matthew's religious views (although I do follow the JEWISH bible as best I can). Will my Indian friends all suffer along with me because they do not accept your views? Are all non born-agains destined to burn in hell - no matter how good they live their lives? It seems that according to Matthew we are. Please enlighten us Matthew.
Again, this is not "my view" in as much as it didn't originate with me. I can post some scripture to illuminate, but my guess is that may be seen as too much of an "in your face" method. I assume you could get hold of a Bible to study the tenets of Christianity if you'd like.
Matthew - you try to bend words. It is YOUR view if you believe it. Is it your view? I'll ask you directly and would like a direct yes or no answer. Will the souls of all Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus rot in hell forever because we (collectively) do not embrace your views on Jesus?
As for the bible, I read it regularly - it's called the 5 books of Moses.
He seems to be willing to pay for all sorts of things for himself, but not a penny to help out the town that he wants to support his club. Hmmm. That does not bother any of you cc supporters? Or are we just supposed to be his servants and shut up about it?
