Started a new topic on this subject since this subject was tucked in amongst too many other messages in another message subject thread altogether ...
(( quote -- Why is my identity relevant? ....
but if you truly stand behind something and believe all you are saying - i'd think you'd be proud enough to attach your name...even ted does that much!!! -- end quote ))
Can only speak for myself ... I have NEVER EVER given my identity online (here or elsewhere).... it's not at all a question or issue of pride whatsoever ....
There's a certain safety in anonymity or else why would people go on boards such as this.... this has very clearly been demonstrated (to me) from the many many postings on this particular message board website, that's for sure.
Certainly your right--and probably a smart decision all things considered.
At least you stay with one screen name so we're able to "assign" a personality to you and recall your opinions and posts.
Others change their screen names like their moods and it makes it difficult to give their opinions any real credibility because it may be 10 people posting the same opinion...or it may be (probably is) one person posting under many names, with the intention of APPEARING as more people.
quote: Originally posted by: Karen "Certainly your right--and probably a smart decision all things considered. At least you stay with one screen name so we're able to "assign" a personality to you and recall your opinions and posts. Others change their screen names like their moods and it makes it difficult to give their opinions any real credibility because it may be 10 people posting the same opinion...or it may be (probably is) one person posting under many names, with the intention of APPEARING as more people."
Karen, sometimes you can be extremely reasonable. I have to agree with your post above. This a very good point and you said it without swearing. I will post under the same name from now on.
One not on Curch Opposers posting their names: I can't imagine any CC supporter even remotely thinking of tracking an Opposer down and bringing them harm. But I saw the posts of Abrim. I easily can see why supporters would rather remain anonymous.
Maybe I am a bit naive, but I do post my proper surname. Actually, the full name, (including my Hebrew name) is Craig Daniel Maier. But I do understand the "fear factor" and why some people are not presenting their proper names here. But, as for myself, having lived in Newark for 4 years while obtaining my degree from college (NCE) (saw a few murders of students and my room-mate got stabbed and almost died) I am a combination of fearless and realistic. Nobody who is realistic who has met me would want to tangle with me (I think). I do not go down easily. Should anyone who wants to do harm to me or my wife, they will have to deal with my arsenal which consists of not only my brains and brawn, but other things as well.
So, anyone contemplating it, do yourself a favor. Don't try it.
I do agree with you when you say that you are maybe a bit naive. The posting of personal information, in particular such that I've seen from you in particular, is unwise, unsafe and could potentially be extremely dangerous. You have no idea how much so. I hope you never find out how much so, either.
Correct me if I'm wrong ... you have posted anonymously on other message boards, yes? Is this the only message board where you have posted your full name, address, phone number, etc etc etc??
There's no *point* to my question, other than to satisfy a curiosity of mine about the social psychology of online communications.
And, of course, no obligation to answer, either. (it's really no big deal to me to know one way or the other).
Thanks!
- B.
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
I would be willing to swear on a Torah Scroll that I have never posted on any other bbs or venue on the internet or newspapers or any other communications media regarding my opinions about this christ church situation. When I express myself, I use my proper name. My only means of public discussion has been right here on this bbs. I looked at the other major venue (nj.com) and decided not to participate because the situation was very clear to me. It was not unbiased and totally controlled by a third party. I never posted a single letter on that bbs. I just stood by as a "lurker." And to that I will swear before G-d.
Craig
ps. Thanks for your concern about our well being. I just feel very strongly about standing behind my (our) thinking and coupling it with our good name. Yeah, people have tried to slander us. But it is going to cost 'em plenty. I may be taking a somewhat foolish approach, but I think ultimately not. It comes down to credibility in my book. Just the way that I was raised. You folks have the name of a real live person who holds certain beliefs and I (we) will stand behind them. My (our) view is always that the glass is half full.
Whereas I certainly don't disagree with your modus operandi for choosing to participate online in the fashion and style that you do ... at the same time I have to disagree on the credibility part insofar as I believe that one can be equally as credible without totally identifying themselves .... I know, as a good example, of MY own credibility online and this is WITHOUT the need to identify myself ....
It's all in the use of the words one uses in their messages and the *tone* it's typed in .. although the *tone* is a HIGHLY subjective thing online .... as you probably already know. -- one can intend to mean one thing and the reader of the message is interpreting the *tone* and words totally different than intended -- I have seen this on these (and other) message boards ... and I have seen the manipulation of the *tone* and typed words, if you will, too. Mind games through manipulation and use of typed words. In any case, such is the way it is. (shrug) ....
Thanks for answering my couple of questions about whether or not you posted elsewhere online ... this does prove a bit of a point I'm trying to make, though ... In that *I* honestly *do* believe you when you say that -- because I've had enough reading of your messages here to know that you say honestly what you mean and intend -- you can certainly understand me when I say that there really is NO other way to know for sure whether that is true or not. I have no idea who you are -- well I might but I sure don't know that from here, anyways!
This reminds me of a newspaper article I recently read (can't remember the source, sorry) that talked about how studies have proven how people are less inhibited with their true selves online than they are in real life .... the walls come down and there is strength to be had without confrontation and interaction face-to-face ...
I'm rambling ... now I stop. It's just all very interesting to me, that's all.
Take care!
- B.
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
U and I come from different experineces. What you may think of as a threat, I may not. My family survived Germany in WW2 cause of various factors. This venue is trite to me by comparison. There are a lot of circumstances that would prove that I have no reasonable expectation to even exist right now but for G-ds intervention upon my family. I have no fear of ****s who choose to disagree with my perspective on this cc fiasco. But, I do respect your view point and I do understand.
My wife and I will be OK! Fear not for us personally. Fear only for our township. If we do not conquer this thing, we are all trashed in all regards - lifestyle, financial well being, spiritual well being and peace in this worldly space that we must exist on.
Yes, we sure do ... I'm relatively new to this country my own self (i.e. had never stepped foot in NJ prior to a half dozen years ago or so) ... and although only time will tell whether anything's trashed or not ... I know my own personal *everything* will never be trashed regardless of what happens around me.
Take care,
- B.
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
In this counrty, for most of us, it takes a lifetime of work to achieve total home ownership. That asset (your home) is that which will carry you and us ultimately through our old age without having to burden our families and society in general. We, like most, are heavily invested in the same. It is not a trivial situation when someone like Ireland decides that what is ours rightfully belongs to them. That is what I see going on here in RT. Think about it.
(( In this counrty, for most of us, it takes a lifetime of work to achieve total home ownership. That asset (your home) is that which will carry you and us ultimately through our old age without having to burden our families and society in general. ))
Yup, same where I come from.
(( We, like most, are heavily invested in the same. ))
Yup, same here too.
(( It is not a trivial situation when someone like Ireland decides that what is ours rightfully belongs to them. That is what I see going on here in RT. Think about it. ))
I have thought about it ... and we'll have to agree to disagree on this point, and many others, that you make and have made in the past.
No big deal ... debate is mind-opening and healthy.
Have a nice day,
- B.
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
So, I would have to conclude from your last comment that it is quite ok by you for an outsider to come into this town and trash it for his own good. It is simply up to us to put up the infrastructure to support him. It is also up to us to simply suffer the consequences of trashed housing prices because of the IMPACT that this guy is going to have on the desirability of real estate in this town.
We sure do have a different opinion on this. I do not just shrug my shoulders and say - - - well that's ok. I will support a 25,000 person church with one member in town. No problem whatsoever.
(( ... I would have to conclude from your last comment that it is quite ok by you for an outsider to come into this town and trash it for his own good.... ))
Not at all ... I said absolutely nothing that should have lead you to this conclusion whatsoever ...
and
(( We sure do have a different opinion on this. ))
Perhaps we do and perhaps we don't ... I haven't provided my opinion anywhere online at all.
What I did say, though, was this: (quote) I have thought about it ... and we'll have to agree to disagree on this point, and many others, that you make and have made in the past. (end quote)
I have not stated online my position about anything.
I am somewhat perplexed as to how you came to the conclusion you did based on the words I typed, though.
-B.
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
My conclusions about your position come from a process known as "inductive reasoning" as opposed. The inference by the nature of your posts reveals your opinion very clearly.
arrrgh .. my original message was NOT posted and that is probably because I forgot to type in my Name, therefore it disappeared into cyberspace ... I'll try to remember what I said (although that can be a daunting task at my age) ..... here goes: ------------------
Apples and oranges ?? ...
I'm aware of the process ... for anyone interested, it's clearly explained here: http://trochim.human.cornell.edu/kb/dedind.htm
(( My conclusions about your position come from a process known as "inductive reasoning" as opposed... (to) to "deductive reasoning" ))
Deductive reasoning works from the more general to the more specific. Deductive reasoning is more narrow in nature and is concerned with testing or confirming hypotheses.
Theory -> Hypothesis -> Observation -> Confirmation
Inductive reasoning works the other way, moving from specific observations to broader generalizations and theories. Inductive reasoning, by its very nature, is more open-ended and exploratory.
Observation -> Pattern -> Tentative Hypothesis -> Theory
(( The inference by the nature of your posts reveals your opinion very clearly. ))
That's an interesting inference you've made ... what opinion(s) are you revealing I have? I've deliberately made a point (to myself) of NOT any formulating any opinion(s) whatsoever on anything I've read on these message boards and elsewhere.
Maybe this is a problem of semantics ...
What I *did* say, however, is this: (quote) .. I have thought about it ... and we'll have to agree to disagree on this point, and many others, that you make and have made in the past. I have not stated online my position about anything. (end quote)
You're certainly welcome to infer anything you want from those words ... but the conclusion you stated earlier ( .... that it is quite ok by you for an outsider to come into this town and trash it for his own good ) is your conclusion, not mine and the 'inductive reasoning' you used .... appears to be faulty since that conclusion is incorrect.
-B
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
Thanks for the lesson in logic. However, as a degreed Electrical Engineer, I took that course and got the diploma!
Nonetheless, my conclusions are my own and I have the right to hold them. I have made conclusions about what cc will do to this town. I have also developed conclusions about your position of these matters as a result of my own analysis of your writings. It is my right as a human being to do those things, especially when someone like you and Ireland remain illusive on the major issues.
For example, Ireland has no growth projections. Yup, I believe that one, not. Another example involves you. You would have me believe that you have no position on cc. Bystander, you are a supporter of cc. To say otherwise is just plain intellectually dishonest. It is written all over everything that you have put down on this bbs. Just gotta read between the lines. Only a fool does not know how to do that and do it effectively.
(( Thanks for the lesson in logic. However, as a degreed Electrical Engineer, I took that course and got the diploma! ))
You're welcome ... that lesson in logic was more intended more for other (degreed and undegreed) curious readers. As a degreed Social Psychologist myself, I also took that course - yay for us! (highfive!)
(( I have also developed conclusions about your position of these matters as a result of my own analysis of your writings. ))
Sounds fine to me, they are YOUR conclusions. Correct or incorrect, they are yours and yours alone.
(( Bystander, you are a supporter of cc. ))
Wow .. (lol)... now that's an amazing and revealing statement (conclusion) you make!
For what it's worth ...
I am neither a supporter nor a non-supporter of cc. That IS the honest-to-goodness truth and this is the FIRST time I'm posting this fact.
No one has asked me straight up outright whether I support or don't support cc ... so whatever did I write (I kinda need specifics here, I really do) that has made you come to that incredible conclusion !!!!!!????
(( It is written all over everything that you have put down on this bbs. ))
Prove that to me with something - anything - I've put down anywhere on this bbs, please ?!?!
Wow ... lucky for me I'm heading out for the evening ... I need some space from this place, I think!
Have a nice evening,
-B.
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Craig Maier
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
Either you are for it or against it. I do not believe that any thinking person has no opinion formed on the issue. You are for it. My opinion and I have the right to hold it.
(( Either you are for it or against it. I do not believe that any thinking person has no opinion formed on the issue. You are for it. My opinion and I have the right to hold it. ))
I'm back - evening out could have been better - watching soccer in the cold and rain is NOT a fun thing to do ... regardless it was nice to get away for a bit so all is good.
You most certainly have the right to hold any opinion you wish to hold - absolutely your prerogative.
I'm just not a great fan of opinions based on emotion, inference and lack of solid substance ...
Unfortunately, message boards and bbs' are notorious for these, too.
It's been an interesting discussion, thanks, and have a great weekend!
-B.
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JAFO
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RE: To: Maria et al re: nicknames & identity .. ..
ok bystander - we are going to build a new school, given. Do you have a problem with 140 GPR being the logical place to build?? Please do not spin on this one, just the facts mam'...(keep in mind that we are not shrinking as a Township -the future must be accounted for, even if state aid does not speculate beyond 5 years).
(( ... Do you have a problem with 140 GPR being the logical place to build?? ))
Answer:
I don't have a problem with 140 GRP being a place to have/build a school .. I also don't have a problem with any other equivalent piece of land being a place to have/build a school .. May the best piece of land win that project!!
Logistics -- I really don't know enough about the zoning, building, land and coding regulations etc.etc. to know which piece of land in the Township is most, or least, logical to have/build a new school.
That's my non-spinning, factual and logical answer to your question.
