HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"From personal experience I say there will be 0-2 cars at the light...which immediately cuts your wait time in half"

WOW !!!!!!  Talk about total denial of reality.

Wow. You guys have been busy the past couple days. Have been reading the mail getting caught up and there is a point that I dont think anyone has recently brought up regarding possible growth with CC.

Now they have a church that seats 1000 so they had to go to 5 services every Sunday. The Rev said he wanted to do the same with only one service in a new church that could seat 5000. Not possible, so he said OK, we can do it with 2 services that seat 2500 each. Now, Yes, he has said he would LIKE to keep it to 2 services, but does anyone think for a minute that he is going to refuse addnl growth to keep it at 2 services? No way. He can use the same facility for 3 Services for 7500, 4 for 10,000, or 5 for 12,500. He may not prefer to do 5 sermons per Sunday, but I will bet you any amount of $ that he will if he needs to. The same as he is doing now. So instead of reducing his Sunday workload, he goes back to the same number of performances per Sunday, but for far more people and thereby more $. Add one addnl service and the already stretched truth of the traffic studies goes out the window and the already ridiculous amount of traffic is stretched over more of our Sundays. Another 2 hrs, 4hrs or it becomes a nightmare ALL SUNDAY. Then dont forget, that will automatically increase the load on all the weekdays too with addnl attendance at their nightly events. NO THANKS. Changing the designations of rooms, or removing addnl seating does nothing to limit this monstrosity. Now if they agreed to cap attendance AND NUMBER OF SERVICES, then maybe he would stand a chance of BSing his way in. Of course then he would just fall back on RLUIPA in the future and insist that any limitation put on him at the time of moving in now infringes on his rights to practice and we would be SOL in a big way. Add to that the fact that these megas always grow, have to grow, and that anyone occupying that amount of real estate has to grow beyond 5k to pay the bills every month, you have a disaster in the making.  

He testified that approximately 75% of his members attend.

He also testified that "many, many" of the attendees are NOT members. Keep in mind, it's a real hassle to become a member there; 3-month class plus a tithing program. Much easier just to attend.

Therefore, using the old 5,000 member figure, we wind up with 3,750 members plus "many, many" non-members.

How many is "many, many?"

I don't wanna know.

Isnt that what I just said eagle$hit? 2500, 5000, 7500, 10,000, 12500.  The size of the sanctuary=attendance x number of services = a bunch of traffic we dont want in RT.

Afraid I have to agree with everyone else here. YOU ARE AN A$$WIPE.

Yep. The fact is that he does 5 services every Sunday now, so whats to stop him from doing it again if he wants to. Answer, absolutely nothing. After all, he is the only one with the "Gift". Those are the facts. The statement that he would prefer not to, doesnt mean squat. He will do anything for $ and to further his personal agenda.  

Another fact, YOU ARE AN A$$WIPE.

Hmm let's see eaglemig has stated in 2 different posts:

"Ireland has testified that he can't do more than three services.

Ireland testified that he could not do more than two."

Well which is it? Why can't anyone who supports cc get anything straight?

As far as traffic on Sundays, please do not give us your "facts". You do not use GPR to get to and from your home. You use it once a week. I have traveled GPR at different times on Sundays, starting at 10AM. There's an average of 60 cars whatever time I go. That's 600 cars per hour. Adding cc, the wait at the light will be more than 1 or 2. Who do you think you're fooling? Let's not even talk about traffic leaving cc. The rev does not care about his congregation as they will endure traffic jams all the way to RT 80 or 287 going down Meridan and Diamond Spring. There's no way anyone can say there won't be traffic, and MUCH traffic.

Eaglemig "As far as the traffic goes, use the reports don't make up alarmist comments.  You mis qoute Ireland to alarm people and ignore facts so that you can make up comments to alarm people.  Stop the nonsense, deal with facts"

The reports HA. Do you know when the traffic study was done? I do. And it wasn't in the summer. Of course traffic will be down in the fall and winter. But you have to realize GPR is heavily traveled in the spring and summer. My figures are correct for the months of June and July as I have counted everytime I travel GPR on Sundays. 

Also I didn't misquote ireland. I had no quotes from Ireland but just those from you, who misquoted ireland. You are the best example of ignoring facts.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! You are a rolling crock of SH*T!!!!!!!!!  You don't know DICK about who contributes to whom, or its relevence here. Besides the fact that this is CCs expert- Not RTs!

 

CCs own paid expert testified that traffic would DEGRADE with CC there, by as much as 400%!!! Thats what he told the PB, that's what we all heard. THAT'S ALL YOU KNOW EITHER!!

 

This ain't NJ.CON a$$wipe....you're BS don't fly here.

 

in fact WHY THE F^CK ARE YOU STILL EVEN POSTING HERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, I think we will have to start treating him with the same non-acknowledgement as the other trolls. He talks about sticking to facts and not making alarmist statements. LOL. When did I in any post predict 20,000 people? I simply made the point that even though the great Rev said he didnt want to do more than 2 or 3 (or whatever) number, he could easily accomodate 12,500 and not do any more work then he is doing now in Montclair. I kind of think he would find the divine strength to do the extra 2 or 3 performances if it meant more $ for his vision. And this would be conceivable with the presently proposed size and occupancy cap, just more services. Just add one more and it throws ANY accuracy of existing traffic survey out the window and extends our traffic nightmare for another couple hours each and every Sunday as well as increasing the load during the week day events.

Gadfly,

You lost it in the 2nd paragraph.  The traffic comming from Sanders rd is 15%?  15% of what?

 

Secondly, a professional traffic engineer will not accept assumptions from the organization that hires him(her)...or maybe your right and the the prior studies done for RT by the same firm accepted bad information which caused the past failures Mort Dicker refered to last meeting

15%, 15%...15% of HOW MANY CARS!  Your stats don't make sense, thats all I'm saying.  They lose a lot of credibility because there's no context and there is no reference that anyone can  check.

My point was that the traffic planners use raw data, not assumptions in developing their reports.  Now, if you dont agree with his conclusions, what data do you think planners should  draw from?  Your off the cuff info or church census data plus prior reports used for PB decisions?

Great eagle - your point is that traffic planners use raw data.

...and of course, a good chunk of the raw data comes right from ireland.

The 15% number was 15% of the total number of cars heading towards 140GPR.  Not a difficult concept to understand.  Perhaps you are the gadfly and enjoy being contrarian.  Don't like the TRUTH - then don't accept it and attack it.

1,000 cars ... traveling northbound ... in the 20 minute period before each service is what I believe the numbers were.

ImInWML,

The discussion was about traffic from WML proceeding north on GPR and would be affected by church traffic.  It was proclaimed that the # is 15%...I'm just trying to determine 15% of what.

What does you 1000 cars stat mean? !000 cars from WML?   There are only 2400 houses in WML.  even 15% of 1000 is a high so I'm not sure what you're refering to.