They say imitation is a form of flattery so a big thank you to the person that spells my name tED.
But more to the point, do you really think the PB wants to vote on CC? Do you believe Sceusi, et al will maintain north end support if the board votes in favor of CC? Do you think CC will not sue if the PB votes against the church or kicks to the Bd of Adjustments?
In terms of the BOE, Have you ever attended even one board or facilities meeting? Do you have any evidence that building a school rather than an addition is required?
Rick ( I assume that’s who you are), keep to the important issues.
They say imitation is a form of flattery so a big thank you to the person that spells my name tED.
I'm not the only one tED, but please don't consider yourself flattered. I find typing in that manner repugnant, but if you choose to play childish games with names of organizations, it's only fitting.
But more to the point, do you really think the PB wants to vote on CC?
No, I'm sure they wish Christ Church would just go away.
Do you believe Sceusi, et al will maintain north end support if the board votes in favor of CC?
I'm sure the mayor thinks he will lose many votes if he does not appear to be fighting strongly for what his constituents want.
Do you think CC will not sue if the PB votes against the church or kicks to the Bd of Adjustments?
That's a no brainer tED. Tell me, what other town in NJ would want them. Anywhere else they attempt to move to, they would go through similar hassles. You can also bet that many towns are now revisiting their zoning rules and making sure they do not list churches as a 'conditional-use in all zones'. They're going to fight their fight here...unless some other 'easier' deal falls into their lap.
In terms of the BOE, Have you ever attended even one board or facilities meeting?
Facilities meetings - no, never attended. Regular BOE meeting - I've been to many, although mostly a few years back. Not nearly as many as you, but I do recall a time a few years back when I was reading the bios of a few of the people running for the BOE that I had attended more meetings prior to the election than some of the candidates (who of course, won).
Do you have any evidence that building a school rather than an addition is required?
Only anecdotal. I'll leave the evidence gathering to the people I have hired with my tax money. You have to delegate sometimes, you know.
Rick ( I assume that’s who you are), keep to the important issues.
Please tell me which unimportant issues I have discussed?
Well thanks anyway. My Small “vs” have made the point; they annoy you and have generated several (according to you) flattering imitators
Regarding your other point’s:
Well it doesn’t appear that CC is going away so what do you think will happen?
Sceusi’s job is to do what he feels is best; he’s not supposed to blindly follow the whims of constituents. For example Lou voted for the Highland (Pond View Estates) project at a time when most people opposed it. I remember his words quite clearly. He said, “I don’t think this is best for the town but I’m voting for it anyway”. I was thinking at the time, ”what the hell does that mean”
Regarding a lawsuit; your immaterial insight doesn’t answer my question. Do you think the PB will vote on CC, kick it or wait for some third party to save them?
Regarding the BOE, it’s clear you have no idea about the issues.
I did not say you addressed unimportant issues. I indicated that your initial reply adressed no issues at all
Your first posted message says --- (( Rick ( I assume that’s who you are), keep to the important issues. )) ...
Your second posted message says --- (( I did not say you addressed unimportant issues. I indicated that your initial reply adressed no issues at all ))
My view on this ....
In order to keep things black-and-white with no room for misinterpretations and mis-intentions ... you, in my personal opinion, should NOT have included the word "important" in your first message at all ... to do so implies 'unimportance' ... hence Rick's request for explanation. To say, instead: "Keep to the issues," would have been, in my belief, non-confrontational and more precise. (shrug)
I'm curious if you were aware of this as/before you posted your message?? If not, I say --
... I'm sure you're aware of the impact of the usage of (baiting) words on their recipient(s)??
Well thanks anyway. My Small “vs” have made the point; they annoy you and have generated several (according to you) flattering imitators
Well tED, if your point is to be annoying, I think you have accomplished that in spades. There's an old saying; "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Maybe you should think about dumping some of that vinegar of yours (in an environmentall safe manner, please) and being more open to honest debate instead of making personal attacks (such as your capitalization of VORT). Can you have a conversation with someone without first belittling them?
Well it doesn’t appear that CC is going away so what do you think will happen?
Do you have insight into CC's thinking? How do you know they won't go away? How do you know the Agilent contract won't expire? How do you know that CC won't find a location that will be easier to work with? That said, in my opinion, the planning board will extend the proceedings as long as possible so they don't have to make a decision. When and if it comes time to decide, I think they will do as our friend todd says and 'follow the law'. I'm not privy to their inner thinkings, so I'd like to wait until that time to see what happens. Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have your superior intellect, so my assumption is that my opinion is meaningless to you and you only asked because you want to bust my
Sceusi’s job is to do what he feels is best; he’s not supposed to blindly follow the whims of constituents. For example Lou voted for the Highland (Pond View Estates) project at a time when most people opposed it. I remember his words quite clearly. He said, “I don’t think this is best for the town but I’m voting for it anyway”. I was thinking at the time, ”what the hell does that mean”
I guess what you are saying then is that no politician would ever let his opinion be swayed by voters. Is that correct? Do any of us know how our 'leaders' will vote? All we can do is take clues from their public actions. If Dimin is talking to Marci Hamilton, a lawyer who specializes in Supreme Court cases and RLUIPA, we have to assume that the planning board is either preparing to fight all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary, or bluff to give that appearance.
Regarding a lawsuit; your immaterial insight doesn’t answer my question. Do you think the PB will vote on CC, kick it or wait for some third party to save them?
I think the planning board will do what they must do. Do you have any special insight that the rest of us lack? Eventually, if the meetings continue, the planning board will vote. Unlike you, I am not expecting Deus Ex Machina to save the planning board from having to vote.
By the way tED, can you please provide some material insight, or do you just request it of others? The only insight I can recall coming from you was in December (Sorry, but my inferior intellect can not recall the exact dates) when you boldly stated on nj.com that the BOE would be comdemning the properpty. If my memory serves me, you even gave dates (long since past of course) when this would occur. Please give us the insight of one with superior intellect so we can all know what will happen (This time, please be correct.) and also, please tell us why we can trust this insight when you were wrong in December?
Regarding the BOE, it’s clear you have no idea about the issues.
Sorry tED. Not all of us can be as brilliant as you. As I said previously, I have attended many BOE meetings in the past, but few in recent years. Some of us have busy schedules that don't allow us the spare time to be at meetings. I have no idea how much free time YOU have as I know nothing about your personal life...Some of us have families and children. Some of us are Scout leaders. Some of us coach soccer. Some of us coach basketball. Some of us coach baseball. Some of us volunteer for other organizations. Some of us are out until 9PM or later 2, 3, or 4 nights a week doing all those activities (with alarm clocks set for 5 or 6AM) and unfortunately, put family responsibilities ahead of attending BOE meetings. Some of us actually enjoy having an evening at HOME to relax, as rare as that evening at home is. I'll be at tonight's meeting which will make 3 nights in a row where I will be at meetings until after 9:00PM. So tED, although I am interested in the BOE, I do not regularly attend their meetings. If it is clear that I have no idea what the issues are, please use your superior intellect to inform me.
tED - At times, you make some very good points. For example, I believe that Mr. Elbert was a wonderful principal and I was angry with the school board for canning him. I agree with you that the teachers' union excerts too much force on the board. It's your delivery of the issues that bothers me. There's a word called humility - you should learn about it. Does the fact that you have a superior intellect bother you so much that you need to be arrogant toward others????
I did not say you addressed unimportant issues. I indicated that your initial reply adressed no issues at all
You confuse me tED; It must be your superior intellect again. How was it my inital reply addressed no issues at all, when your statement came on the first post of this thread?
By the way tED. You ask me for insight. I will tell you, I have no crystal ball. I have no special insight (do you?). I will do what I can to stay informed, have my voice heard, and my body counted. That's about all I can do.
Again, if you are privy to insider information from either side, I'm sure your postings of it would be welcome. If you have no insight, please don't ask for the insight of others and then attack them when they have none.
Correct me if I'm wrong, of course .. you are one who enjoys using the abrasive style to stir things up, so's to speak .. and hey, that's great (who am I to judge) ...
To each their own on how they wish to procure information.
How do you see this as the actions of a moderator, though ... the (abrasive) approach used usually turns more people away/off, than not, no ?
Actually, the small “v’s” were just something that I did but since it annoys you folk to the point of distraction, I gotta keep doing it. Especially you Rick, you’re so easy to steer off course…it makes me laugh.
The Christ Church issue WILL come to a conclusion. I’ve detailed what I believe is a reasoned scenario. Basically I feel Sceusi and his buddies don’t have the balls to vote yes or no. I feel they’re truly hoping for some miracle to happen.
In addition, I was present at the BOE after Lou left a closed-door session with the Board to discuss the Agilent property (BTW that’s not an assumption, it’s what Sceusi told me)
My comment regarding the duties of politicians was really a smack at them, not you. Max Rogers’ comments to the press a few months ago and Alex Gellman’s remarks to me after the Copeland fundraiser still stick in my craw. Summarizing, both councilmen stated they just want the result constituents desire. My feeling is we elected them to determine the best course of action. I told Gellman it seemed as if he was saying “my constituents are running down the street. I’d better follow them and catch up so I can lead. Basically, they’re doing it “ass backwards”.
So far, my observations have been correct. The PB is stalling, there’s a deal brewing between the municipality and the BOE (for the Fleetwood property) and Councilmen like Rogers and Dachisen are harassing me at PB hearings. I figure I’m on the right track and I just wanted to know how you see it.
I attend many meetings and work four evenings each week and my son is involved in sports. So I too am busy. I’m not being condescending in fact I’m happy to have the ability to do these things. I do get angry however when people insinuate that their lives are more involved than mine or that I’m acting out in bitterness due to my disability. Frankly, I find THAT condescending.
"Actually, the small “v’s” were just something that I did but since it annoys you folk to the point of distraction, I gotta keep doing it. Especially you Rick, you’re so easy to steer off course…it makes me laugh."
Oh...you just reminded me of something.... That something is....
I didn't suggest that anyone feels sorry for me (nor should they)
I said it angers me when people suggest that their lives are busier than mine. I get that alot. Some mention my condition directly some (like Rick) imply it.
tOAD, I'm not going to defend Rick...cause he is big boy and does a good job defeating you in debates all by himself.
I can tell you this though... I couldn't give a damn if you have two heads.... You’re a condescending S.O.B. And you have a tendency to nit pick and start fights with people over semantics...a lot like someone else.
I don't know, could it be you're presuming that incorrectly?
I know many people, for example, suggest that Todddavid has no life and have on many occasions told him "some of us have children, jobs, and lives--you obviously have a lot of time on your hands..." etc.
Nobody thinks Todddavid has any disability.
p.s. you DO spend a lot of time on these boards; so do I, though, so I guess the same could be said of me.
ted...i've been reading the boards...i could be missing it...but i haven't seen anything about your condition...so this condition has no effect on anything that i've said...and am about to say...many times i've let you know how condescending your words come across...and how doing this makes people tune you out or get down-right mad...people that are otherwise rational and would often take the time to listen (even to an opposing side) - if only it was a real discussion...and not a put down...
many times you come across rude and as though you believe yourself to be a perfect intellectual being...and put others down for simple things...like asking a question that has been asked in the past...even if they did not ask the question previously...or calling people confused for having an opinion that opposes yours...this is not a proper way to behave and get a point across...and makes people resent you and your words...this...has nothing to do with any condition...it is attitude and treatment of others...so...if you want people to be nicer to you...try speaking to them civily...i bet you'd see a change...and maybe feel better about yourself...
Direct comments were made on NJ.com but it really doesn’t matter. Yes I’m rude sometimes but I place more time and effort into these issues than most. Then I get told by people that know half as much, that I should keep my “minority” opinions to myself or that my opinion is meaningless because I lost 3 elections…and then I get condescending people (like you) who tell me. I should be nicer so I can feel better about myself.
I've no idea who you are other than through these typed words... and these typed words don't show me any 'condition' ... so I've no idea what that refers to. (my curiosity is piqued, but I will not pry)
To Maria:
(( if you want people to be nicer to you...try speaking to them civily...i bet you'd see a change...and maybe feel better about yourself... ))
Jumping in and adding my own two cents here but I suggest that it's likely not a concern of Ted D's to have people be nicer to him .... if it was, he wouldn't post messages the way he intentionally does. No desire to see a change, either ... he likely already feels fine about himself. Of course it's not my place to speak on behalf of anyone else, so again, if I'm incorrect, I apologise.
Really, it's anyone's prerogative to be whatever way they want to be ... and take the consequences of their actions such as they are. (shrug)
Actually, the small “v’s” were just something that I did but since it annoys you folk to the point of distraction, I gotta keep doing it. Especially you Rick, you’re so easy to steer off course…it makes me laugh.
I'm glad you find me so easy to steer off course tED. If I am off course, can you please tell me where I am. I think I know where I am going tonight. To that meeting thing that they are holding at the what do you call it, oh yeah, the high school? Is that it? Oh yes, that's my course. I'm not annoyed by your 'v' thing - if it makes you feel bigger than the rest of us by calling VORT names, go right ahead. All you are doing is helping any open-minded people (I'm sure you'll say there are none) who are reading these posts form an opinion of you. Again, that's your free speach. Feel free to use it as I will use my own. I'm still very curious as to how you are steering my off course though. I think I'm a big enough boy that I know where I am going and what I believe in.
The Christ Church issue WILL come to a conclusion.
Gee, and I thought it would go on forever and ever. If you want to talk about statements that say nothing, you have just made one. Of course it will conclude. All things conclude. The question at hand is HOW and WHEN will it conclude.
I’ve detailed what I believe is a reasoned scenario. Basically I feel Sceusi and his buddies don’t have the balls to vote yes or no. I feel they’re truly hoping for some miracle to happen.
Ah, there's your Deus Ex Machina again. Again tED, you promised us a fix months ago and it has not materialized. Frankly, I hope you are correct. Again, I don't have insider insight into the matter. Maybe you do. If you do, why are you asking me for my insight?
In addition, I was present at the BOE after Lou left a closed-door session with the Board to discuss the Agilent property (BTW that’s not an assumption, it’s what Sceusi told me)
Good for you tED. I was not present. As I said, I have not been to many BOE meetings in the past few years. Maybe that's enough of a reason that you should not have asked for my insight. Maybe you should have posed your question in an open letter to the BOE members instead (would they have answered)?
My comment regarding the duties of politicians was really a smack at them, not you.
I wasn't insulted tED. Besides, I have one common trait with you. I've got a thick skin. I've been insulted and verbally asaulted many times in the past (Unfortunately, it comes with the territory when you coach youth sports). What goes on here is really nothing in comparison.
Max Rogers’ comments to the press a few months ago and Alex Gellman’s remarks to me after the Copeland fundraiser still stick in my craw.Summarizing, both councilmen stated they just want the result constituents desire. My feeling is we elected them to determine the best course of action. I told Gellman it seemed as if he was saying “my constituents are running down the street. I’d better follow them and catch up so I can lead. Basically, they’re doing it “ass backwards”.
Not being privy to your private conversation with Mr. Gellman, I can't comment on what he said to you. I will ask you if you know of any politician who has stayed in office for a while who is not interested in pleasing his or her constituents?
So far, my observations have been correct. The PB is stalling, there’s a deal brewing between the municipality and the BOE (for the Fleetwood property) and Councilmen like Rogers and Dachisen are harassing me at PB hearings. I figure I’m on the right track and I just wanted to know how you see it.
Ah - so my opinion DOES have value to you! You keep waffling on that one. I seem to be an uniformed mental midget one second, and now you ask how I see it! If you truly want my opinion, as I have stated before, I think the pb is trying to move as slowly as possible. I don't know most of the local politicos very well, so I can't comment on what you stated above. I do think it sounds like a reasonable explanation. I can however, see many other reasons for stalling:
If there is a expiry date in the Agilent contract, it might be reached and the deal might fall through.
If Rockaway becomes enough of a thorn in CC's side, they might find another property. I would not be surprised if they are quietly looking now. It would be in their best interest to do so (without Rockaway residents finding out of course).
If the delay is long enough, there might be more settlements of other RLUIPA cases which might help the pb. The holy grail, of course, would be the Supreme Court finding RLUIPA unconstitutional, but I don't think there will be any cases heard in the near future. How long can they stall for?
As long as the 'process' continues, no votes need be taken.
As long as the 'process' continues, CC does not move in.
I attend many meetings and work four evenings each week and my son is involved in sports. So I too am busy. I’m not being condescending in fact I’m happy to have the ability to do these things. I do get angry however when people insinuate that their lives are more involved than mine or that I’m acting out in bitterness due to my disability. Frankly, I find THAT condescending.
Ted (intentionally correct caps for this response) - I truly know nothing about your personal life outside of the fact that you have a disability, which is obvious to anyone who has seen you. I did not know you had a son until I read your message above. I have no idea what your marital status is. I have no idea what your work status is. I did not accuse you of not being involved and would never do so. As I said, in the past, I have attended a number of BOE meetings. You were at almost every one of them (this is going back before you were on the board). I don't have to agree with you politically to have respect for the fact that you give your time to attend these meetings and get involved. Most people in this town (and other towns) are apathetic. They sit at home and watch TV for 3 hours a night. I am DEFINITELY not stating that you are apathetic or that you do not get involved. My statements were in response to your attack on me (In terms of the BOE, Have you ever attended even one board or facilities meeting? and Regarding the BOE, it’s clear you have no idea about the issues). You basically challenged that I have never been to a BOE meeting and that I nothing about what is going on. I value my time greatly. I don't sit on my butt and relax all evening. I am heavily involved in many activities in town - sports, Scouts, and religious acitivities. I hope you can respect the fact that when I am not at the Board of Ed meeting, I might be helping a group of Boy Scouts earn a merit badge, or on a field or in a gym with a group of young athletes. As for your statement "I’m acting out in bitterness due to my disability". One has nothing to do with the other. I find your comments very acerbic at times. Way back in the first post of this thread, you asked for my opinion. When I gave it, I was attacked. Are you bitter? People will form their own opinions of that. Was I attacked? I think so...but again, I have a thick skin and I'm still here. Was it due to your disability? I would never attempt to imply nor would I think it. Why? People are people. They're all different. Everyone has their own method of dealing with others. You are who you are. I am who I am.
I'm not even sure why we are having this conversation. In your original post in this thread, you mentioned me and asked my opinion. I felt compelled to answer. I've taken up my valuable time to give you what you asked for - my thoughts. I have also been attacked - both in your first post, and after giving you the opinions you asked for:
Your first post:
Rick ( I assume that’s who you are), keep to the important issues
Again - not sure where that came from and why you mentioned me by name since your post was not in response to anything I wrote...but you mentioned me, so I answered.
Regarding a lawsuit; your immaterial insight doesn’t answer my question.
Regarding the BOE, it’s clear you have no idea about the issues
I did not say you addressed unimportant issues. I indicated that your initial reply adressed no issues at all (You still confuse me - since your statement came before I ever replied)
Actually, the small “v’s”...Especially you Rick, you’re so easy to steer off course…it makes me laugh. (Glad you got a chuckle at my expense...but I don't know what course you steered my off of).
Again Ted - as for your statement "I said it angers me when people suggest that their lives are busier than mine. I get that alot. Some mention my condition directly some (like Rick) imply it."
If you think I truly implied that then I am sorry for giving you a false impression. It was definitely NOT what was intended. My statements were made in my own defense of your attacks, not as an attack on you. Ted, I may not agree with what you say, but I'll protect your right to say it (for those who want to accuse me of plaguerism, that's an anonymous quote - author unknown).
What I want to know is why did you draw me into this conversation - Again, the first post was yours, and you singled me out, but then attack what you see as my failings. I would be very happy to discuss my opinion with you, but I would prefer to keep it on a civil level. Please go back and read how many times you personally attacked me. Much of what I wrote in these threads was in self-defense and not as part of a discussion. I'm saddened that I have to spend my time defending myself for not attending BOE meetings or for not knowing some of the councilmen or mayor personally.
In summary - if you'd like to have open discussion and want my honest opinion, please ask - here on this board, or in person. If you'd like me to say hello during a break at tonight's meeting - please ask. I assume you do not know who I am, although you might recognize my face as one you've seen before. All I ask is that you take my opinions for what they are worth - as my opinions only, and that you respect what I do with my "free" time as I respect what you do with yours.
Rick, you entered the conversation on your own. I said that I assumed you were the person posting stuff as tED. The fact that responded made me feel certain that it was you. Perhaps you should avoid conversations that aren’t about or concern you. I assumed tED was you because he or she uses the same attack, name-calling mode as you
I said that I assumed you were the person posting stuff as tED.
There are many people who have typed that as your name. I admit that I have also. I'm not sure what post you are talking about. Please tell me which thread it was.
The fact that responded made me feel certain that it was you.
As I said - a bunch of different people have done that. It seems that not many people respect the fact that you make light of VORT, so they throw it back at you.
Perhaps you should avoid conversations that aren’t about or concern you.
Ted - First of all, my name was mentioned. I'm the only Rick around here. You brought me into the conversation. You asked my opinions. And your tone is now turning condescending again.
I assumed tED was you because he or she uses the same attack, name-calling mode as you
I'm not sure which post you are talking about. I do not believe I ever posted as tED (I am assuming that you are talking about using that as a name and not in the context of a message), but then again, my brain can't remember back past lunchtime. Most of my posts here have been with my name on it.
Again, on this thread, you posted some questions. You mentioned my name. I answered to the best of my ability. Sorry if my answers were not good enough for you, but don't worry, the acid you spit back at me washes off easily.
If you want to throw out immature attacks like using the word 'vORT', then be prepaired to receive immature attacks back.
If you want to attack people for their opinions, then expect people to attack you back.
If you have no respect for the time I spent this afternoon attempting to honestly respond to you, even after your bevy of attacks, then I guess there's nothing more to discuss. Tell me, have I wasted my time with you? Do you ask my opinion but not care what I say?
If so, why do you even bother posting? Do you care what anyone else says? Do you post just to bait people into responding, so you can attack them to show how superior you are?
I'm on this board, because I feel strongly about this issue. When I feel strongly about something, I try to get involved and stay informed. How about you? What's your motivation for being here?
I just went back and looked at the 'middle ground' posts. If the posting that I have copied below is the one you are talking about, I did not post it. I have one post on that thread. It has my name on it. I called you tED in it (responding to your "vORT") and I extended your list of people / areas whom I thought would be affected. I also responded to Craig in that post, and did not entirely agree with what he said.
So - when you started this thread, if you thought the person below was me, it was not.
Can I ask you a question? How do you hold intelligent conversations with other people when you give other people no credit for having intelligence?
Next time, please don't make assumptions of whom posted what. Now I understand why I was attacked starting with your very first post in this thread.
Again, maybe if you toned down your rhetoric a bit and stopped attacking people's intelligence and commitment, they would give you more respect. Maybe you don't want the respect of others. Maybe you want others to not like you. I don't know what you want (nor do I care). I think if you read my posts to you in this thread, you will find that I was reasonably respectful of you, even through your personal attacks of me (detailed in one of my posts above). I put a lot of my time into my responses. If that's worth nothing to you, then I don't care...It'll be one less person I'll have to respond to and more free time for me.
Author: To tED
Date: 1 day ago Views: 36
RE: Middle Ground
Um, ok tED - will the aliens from mars be riding on these "white horses"?
Let's face it tED, you are in a very sMALL minority of folks that acually live here in Rockaway that are cheerleading for CC. I love how you bash the School Board at every turn - it just goes to show your true colors friend.
I could go on and on, but let it suffice that while you have you right to your opinion, the Majority of good folks here in town regard you as a sideshow that must be tolerated at best.
If we were talking about another ted doody moving into town and the town all realized, I think the attendance at the meetings would require the meeting to be moved to giant’s stadium.
