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The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board -> Rockaway Township Free Speech -> Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
Post Info TOPIC: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
Craig Maier

Date:
Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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A question that I posed to Mr. Ireland at the last meeting was in essenece "Sir, do you believe that your Religious Rights superscede those of the folks who live in Rockaway Township?"  I bring this up for those who may not have been at the meeting.  I set up the question with the fact that my wife (like many other folks) attend church every Sunday.  Presently, it takes her about 10 minutes to commute to church in each direction.  I said to Mr. Ireland "If your unwillingness and ineptness in calculating the growth of your church results in the clogging of our tiny rural roads, and the christians of this community can not get to their houses of worship on Sunday morning without suffering hours of traffic jams, do you think that is ok?"  I feel that this guy has the right to practice his religion (one that he invented), but it does not superscede ours.  And that is probably where the line will ultimately be drawn.  This project of his could easily hold a membership of 25,000 and that would definitely shut down this town on Sundays.  Remember, when I queried him about capping his membership at 25,000, he balked!  I also queried him as to whether or not he would be willing to pay for any widening of all the arteries leading to his church if this problem occurred, and he said no.  So you can see, he will be a great neighbor. 

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Karen

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That's been my hubby's contention from the beginning--THEIR plan interferes with MY freedom of religion.

I remember someone asking at the previous meeting:

"Dr. Ireland, do you feel it's a violation of a person's freedom of religion if they can't get through your traffic to get to their house of worship?"

At first he didn't want to answer but the board said he should answer--

His response: "No."

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Mark B

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RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours
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When he did answer, I remember him saying, in a very blunt style, was something to the effect that, the other Churches would have to adapt to the change.

My feeling was in line with what I have been feeling all along, that this guy is going to, in a very outspoken way, propose to do whatever he wants to do.

Unless of course it includes any projection of growth...because that issue, and the potential would really stir up the general population.

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Ted Doty

Date:
RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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Actually, this is a silly question.  No one in their right mind would expect any answer other than "NO".


It wasn't an original question either.  The question , had you been paying attetion was asked at the January meeting.


Ireland answered quite clearly that he would adjust whatever is needed to insure every residents right to worship.


Craig, not only is your anaysis flawed but you fail to pay attention.  Your question was redundant, asked in a rude manner and your own credibilty suffered



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Craig Maier

Date:
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Ted,


I have told you once before not to address me.  I DO NOT chat with idiots.  So "talk to the hand."



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Ted Doty

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Just as I suspected.  Not a leg to stand on.  Sir, you've been exposed as an ignorant, angry man.

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Craig's funny

Date:
RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours
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Craig talks to Ted and tells him "I'm not going to talk to you".

I didn't get to see craig's circus act, but I imagine he must have been rolled up there in a stroller, as he has the mental maturity of a two year old.

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Craig Maier

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RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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I addressed the community as a whole, not Ted.  Please note that my initial posting made no mention of this guy named Ted.

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Ted Doty

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He was an embarassment to  all...both sides of the issue.


Nonsensical really


 



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Kim

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Ted,  Craig's actions wer talked about days ago, let it go.  He felt the need to speak, he did - it's done - get over it.

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Karen

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Ted, you have a lot to say.

I remember when you went up to the mic to speak at the first planning board meeting and there was a collective groan from the audience.

You went on to rant about eminent domain and how we should all be afraid for our homes.

Then you made some accusation toward Max about how he bought a piece of property near his home to block a development of some sort.

I see your statements to be no more relevant than anyone else's.

Everyone has concerns that they feel passionate about.

Again I ask, as I asked others before--who are you to determine what's a valid concern where individual circumstances are involved?

This is a free speech board, and as such, you can address Craig all you want whether he likes it or not; he doesn't have to respond--or the two of you can have a ****ing contest for all it matters.

Regardless, it won't be deleted and you won't be banned.

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p.s.

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I hate these ****ing asterisks but they're mandatory with the free board.

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Ted Doty

Date:
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I never spoke at a CC planning board hear.  You refer to the Council meeting at which vORT submitted their petition.


 


Also I made no accusations.  Like I've said you're new, so I'll keep it simple.  I was trying to make a point but eminent domain is a hot button and the council didn't want to hear it.  So I was interupted and Max was allowed to speak.


If you get involved and attend a few meetings you'll find that's a tactic the Council has used for years. 



  • first the wait for the Daily Record reporter to leave the room

  • then they open for public comment

  • if someone makes a comment that the Mayor doesn't like, there is an interuption.  In the past, Bill Rosen  or Paul Minenna would run interference.

Pay attention, you'll get it soon 



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Maria

Date:
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you really think quite highly of yourself ...and you really come across as a condescending prick!!!


you should really learn how to speak to people - then...even if what you are saying is crap...you might at least get your point/your opinion across...


but then again...if you had a "real" point...you wouldn't have to mask it in nasty comments to others


 


 


 



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Maria

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RE: that was for ted
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in case there was any question.

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Karen

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RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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Ted, thanks for the education.

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RT11

Date:
So What..
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Can someone (maybe Ted since it appears he is in the know) educate me on exactly what the tact of the Council has to do with this?  I have been at most meetings and it seems Mr. Dicker has been even-handed in his approach to THIS issue. 


Frankly, I do not need a history lesson on what the Council did before - especially since Bill Rosen, for example, is not even on the Council anymore.


Sure these won't be deleted, but let's stick to the forum hearing the application and the issue before them. 



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Ted Doty

Date:
RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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The "tact" of the council has nothing to do wit this.  It's simply that Karen brought up (in error) an incident.


Mort is the ONLY even handed official on the planning board.  He is, without question the most principled man any of us will ever meet.


Read more carefully, rt11 



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karen

Date:
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I read more carefully but still don't see, aside from saying it was the planning board when it was the council, where I was in error.

Oh well, it's of little consequence. My point was, your opinions are no more relevant than anyone else's.

And for that matter, your tactics aren't any more polished either.

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Chuck Mueller

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Ted calling Craig an embarrasement! Ha. OK so Craig got a little emotional once for something he believes in deeply. Some called it an embarrasement, others understood his point and are looking past it. Ted, on the other hand is a massive embarrasement to the town everytime he speaks, which is constantly, in any venue that will allow him. Did anyone else notice that of all the people who spoke in front of the council that night, Ted was the only one they threatened to eject from the room if he didnt shut up. Like they say, thats the Pot calling the kettle black. (BTW, no racism intended).

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RT11

Date:
For Ted...
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I guess you just don't get it. 


You made your point in the first paragraph but had to take it into the gutter by bringing up past council members and incidents.  They are of no importance to this issue. What the council did or did not do had nothing to do with what Karen said (and I don't even know Karen.) 


Stay on issue and maybe gain some much needed respect.  Many of your points appear to be well thought out and make sense - until you take that final step off the curb.


BTW... ("tact" it is exactly the word I wanted to use - and in the proper context.)





Main Entry: tact
Pronunciation: 'takt
Function: noun
Etymology: French, sense of touch, from Latin tactus, from tangere to touch -- more at TANGENT
1 : sensitive mental or aesthetic perception <converted the novel into a play with remarkable skill and tact>
2 : a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense
synonyms TACT, ADDRESS, POISE, SAVOIR FAIRE mean skill and grace in dealing with others. TACT implies delicate and considerate perception of what is appropriate <questions showing a lack of tact>. ADDRESS stresses dexterity and grace in dealing with new and trying situations and may imply success in attaining one's ends <brought it off with remarkable address>. POISE may imply both tact and address but stresses self-possession and ease in meeting difficult situations <answered the accusations with unruffled poise>. SAVOIR FAIRE is likely to stress worldly experience and a sure awareness of what is proper or expedient <the savoir faire of a seasoned traveler>.


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Ted Doty

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RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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You seem to be of the opinion that the CC ordeal is happening in a vacuum or as an exclusive incident that is unrelated to the past.


It is VERY related to RT's past.  In fact it's a continuation of the struggle between the different sections of this very large township.



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karen

Date:
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I can agree with the part about the struggle between the sections of the township. Even being "new", that's obvious.

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RT11

Date:
Not so Fast...
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Ted,


From what I continue to read from "both sides" of this debate, the past has no bearing on the decision of the Planning Board.  As I understand it the issue of CC must be evaluated oin its own LEGAL merits.  If that is the case, and I think it is, what happened in the past is moot here.  Thanks for the history lesson, but that class is not is session right now. 


PLEASE STICK TO THE MATTER AT HAND



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Ted Doty

Date:
RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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RT11,


Don't be so myopic. 


While its true the Christ Church application has to stand on its own legal merits, the discussion between community members (pro & con) has not revolved around the legal issues.


At its core, this is a struggle between neighborhoods of the same townand has as much to do with the past actions of Bill Rosen, Pieter Prall (the 60's throw back from Monday's meeting), John Inglesino, etc as it does CC legal rights. 



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RT11

Date:
Now I understand....
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After reading the first line of your response, I now undestand why everyone has such a low opinion of you.  It's personal (and u don't even know me.)  There are many retorts I could use that would cut right to your core, but I'll refrain - at least for now.


As far as your response is concerned, I seem to recall many who took issue with the emotional stance the town was taking and asked that they "stick to the issues." 


Myopic as I may be (to you), I do not see the connection between CC and the Council - unless you are implying that this is already a done deal and will be approved with the Council's blessing. 


If one has to revert all the way to the 60s, I expect we have far bigger issues in this town.  Maybe you could be Mayor Ted.  This way none of your wisdom is wasted on us mear mortals.



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Karen

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RE: Does Irelands Religious Rights Superscede Ours?
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D-oh!

Already tried that, from what I've heard.

Hence Ted's anger directed at the various boards and politicians in RT.

I believe the term is "sour grapes".

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Ted Doty

Date:
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First off, Karen you're clueless


RT11, I never associated CC with the Council or any other Board.  And no  don't think it's a done deal...never have.


I'm pretty sure however that the PB will never vote on the issue, the Bd. of ADJ will not take control and the schools will be involved



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PS

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PS the general public's opinion of me has been in both directions in the past few years but that doesn't motivate me.  I'm not running for anything nor will I.  I'm also sure no one will ask. 

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Mr. Stark

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Ted, I was gonna type up a whole big post about why you are wrong, as I started, I realized that you have nothing better to do with your time then be contrite. You’re like a 5 year old that yells for momma and then doesn’t have anything to say o her. I’m glad that I’ve created a virtual place for you to attempt a mock relevance to the real world. If that really makes you happy, knock your self out. Enjoy your life you sour sack of ****.

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