Today's NN had a good story about the Highlands/DEP/Council and exemptions. Sounds like all the rules and procedures are still very much up in the air with the whole thing. Forrest mentioned the CC project as being a "headline project seeking council intervention." She also goes on to show the contradictions within the DEP's own procedures, and the size increase beyond the exemption application by CC, as well as, the clause in NJ DEP Law that states that the exemption "shall be null and void if changes are made to the project that would increase the scope or area disturbed by the project." Seems like just a matter of time before a judge would rule, based on existing laws, that the exemption is null and void, regardless of the fact that the DEP cant find their a** with both hands. Given that any resubmittal of the new (actual) plans wouldnt qualify for another exemption, plus all the negative press the DEP has already gotten, I think CC is toast. Overall, it was another good article by Cindy Forrest. My only criticism is that she should have included more detail on how much over the original submittal the real plans are. As I remember we are talking about >100,000 sq ft, plus the underground/bldg parking lot and excavation. Just a slight "miscalculation".
"...shall be null and void if changes are made to the project that would increase the scope or area disturbed by the project."
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The article goes on to say regarding the cc application:
"Whether those changes effect the status of the project is unclear. A call to the DEP press office inquireing about the general process the DEP has in pace to ensure that plans submitted for exemption have not been altered met with less than a ready response. "I'll have to check into that and call you back." said Erin Phalon, a DEP spokesperson. In the end. the DEP response, according to Phalon, is that it is the applicant's responsibility to inform the DEP of any changes.
(emphasis added)
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I guess that leaves the public pretty much out of the loop. Ireland has decided not to inform the DEP of his changes, so that is the end of that. My impression is that they really do not want to hear about it, wouldn't you say from the flavour of the statement?
I agree Rat. Thats why I think it will be a court decision that will make the exemption null and void. Regardless of the fact that the DEP doesnt have any vehicle in place to verify the accuracy of the submitted plans or conduct any followup, they do have the clause in the law, so it should be a no-brainer for a judge to say, Yep, null and void. Resubmit if you want to, but the original is out.
I must admit that it has been a long time since I have read the Highlands Act. I may have read it even before its final form, or so it seems anyway.
But, the way that I recall it is this. The DEP comissioner, (not a court of law nor a commission per se) has the final word on these things. To me that means that the most that the courts can do is to tell the Director of the DEP to review their decision.
What do you recall about the law in that regard? And, if I am correct about the courts role in all of this, do you think that the DEP will reverse itself after review?
The courts will force the DEP to see the difference in plans - they have to follow the law - it is over for cc unless they forget about the underground garage, the soon to be illegal parking tower, and the smaller than code parking spots. Where does that leave them? With about 800 parking spots - it is obvious that the mega-dream will never fit that site, what does he tell the congregants??? Tough sell to explain that 5 or 6 shows will still be needed at the new site in order to perform their religious expression...so much for celebrating all together. It's over rev...
Doesn't the planning board have the right to make CC resubmit their plans to the DEP (the same plans they are using at the PB meetings), before they proceed with another meeting?
If the planning board does not have the right to require CC to resubmit their plans to the DEP before holding another meeting, they should have that right regarding the new town ordinance assuming approval on March 1st. If the ordinance is approved, I would imagine that CC will be at the proverbial fork in the road. They would either have to rework their plans or litigate. Any guess on which alternative they will choose?
I think that the PB does have that right after the new town ordinances are approved. I predict that this will be the commencement of the lawsuit phase of the debacle. That's fine. Just kick the can down the road a bit.
It has been suggested in private conversations with people claiming to know, that CC will just continue to scale back their plans to fit. I personally find that hard to believe since their position has been that they need to greatly expand their size to practice their religion. If they eventually scale back to what would amount to a normal sized church at the location it would defeat their whole purpose, unless their purpose is to just get a foothold in the town and then we wouldnt be able to stop their growth afterwards. The PB will have to be careful cause if they do continue to scale back, it means a more severe and longer lasting traffic impact on Sundays especially since they would be going back to more than 2 services. I would also think that if they scaled back too much, then RLUIPA would be of little use to them since they could then more easily stay where they are and if we turned them down, we wouldnt be preventing them from practicing their religion at all.
Has anyone else noticed that there has been no mention in any of the meetings of their Radio and TV studios and the book and video publishing business that is also supposed to be on the mega-campus?
"unless their purpose is to just get a foothold in the town and then we wouldnt be able to stop their growth afterwards."
That is one of my greatest fears about this thing. Once in, nothing can really stop him from putting up his own Vatican if he so chooses.
Just say NO!
Condemn the property now before its is too late. It would only cost about $2,000.00 bucks a family. What is the big deal here compared to the devastation that would occur if this thing happens?
why would cc be allowed to expand? It is clearly stated in the Highlands bill that unless cc owned the property BEFORE the bill was signed, the are out of luck. They would have to remain within the 125% - I still believe the courts will force the DEP to see the real plans - what is cc going to do?
Usually what happens is once a mega moves in, they become regulars a PB meetings... most likely shooting for the stars & getting the moon... if they grow...they will have to keep adding on... they know this
What if they can't build anymore? They will be forced to buy and/or rent real estate on GPR, which includes commercial buildings & parking lots as well as some of the private residences on GPR & lower Meridan & Old Beach... all this will provide parking & housing for various things... shuttle buses will be needed
The main concern as for all megas is parking... if the people can't park, they can't come... the most basic solution is multiple services... any mega knows its easy to get approved for more services, because it "fixes" alot of the problems.. I would expect this to be what cc will be forced to do.
Sorry to repeat myself, but plenty of megas back off certain sites when they see all the reasons why the site won't work... we certainly would hope that some day rev ireland sees for himself why this site won't even work for him
quote: Originally posted by: JohnQ "why would cc be allowed to expand? It is clearly stated in the Highlands bill that unless cc owned the property BEFORE the bill was signed, the are out of luck. They would have to remain within the 125% - I still believe the courts will force the DEP to see the real plans - what is cc going to do?"
Unless it is their belief that RLUIPA will trump DEP rules!??!
I find that hard to believe as the DEP rules are pre-existing - they would be moving in with the rules in place and with their full knowledge of those rules...
Of course, how many people build half million dollar homes right next to highways and then complain about the horrible noise...forcing taxpayers to build $1 million / mile soundwalls to protect their homes (I still don't get those soundwalls for NEW homes...clearly, they should be funded by developers and NOT taxpayers)...
Could it be possible that their plan is to move in and when denied expansion, cry RLUIPA???
I have stated this before, but it got no attention; Ireland and company already have purchased another 10 acres of property on GPR.
Besides that, he could purchase the two or three companies directly to the East of the Agilent site, the building on the corner of Meriden and GPR, the Gas Station, Bagel Shop, and empty buildings directly across the street on GPR. He could also purchase a bunch of houses including the day care center across the road on GPR.
When you get down to it, his alternatives are almost infinite one he is in.
You folks just really have to decide whether or not you want a 20,000 to 25,000 person Megachurch here, because, as long as he has alternatives, he WILL DO IT!
quote: Originally posted by: Rational "I have stated this before, but it got no attention; Ireland and company already have purchased another 10 acres of property on GPR. Besides that, he could purchase the two or three companies directly to the East of the Agilent site, the building on the corner of Meriden and GPR, the Gas Station, Bagel Shop, and empty buildings directly across the street on GPR. He could also purchase a bunch of houses including the day care center across the road on GPR. When you get down to it, his alternatives are almost infinite one he is in. You folks just really have to decide whether or not you want a 20,000 to 25,000 person Megachurch here, because, as long as he has alternatives, he WILL DO IT!"
Rational
I also ask, where are the 10 acres. Why has no one heard of this? Have you gone to the Township building to see the property transfers?
I have it from a real estate agent that this property is located at the northern end of GPR. It was purchased under a proxy name, but in fact is part of the Irland empire. Maybe someone with some political clout can find out more about it. I have none and thus have no further details.
Nonetheless, the point still stands. There are tons of properties that Ireland can purchase right in the area of the Agilent site. Once that deal is done, RT is toast. All those satellite properties can be used as parking lots.
Want to solve your parking problems with the Towhship? Have I got a deal for you.
We own a 3.25 Acre lot directly on Meriden Rd in RT. The lot is almost perfectly flat, perfect for parking. It has two buildings on it that could easily be bulldozed to make way for your needs.
Offered at only $899.00, it is quite a bargain. Contact me here.
ps, If you buy it, I may even become your advocate!
Keep in mind that once you buy our property and turn it into a church parking lot, I am certain that you will be able to purchase all of our neighbors homes as well for that purpose. All the lots around us are nice and flat (and a minimum of 2 acres in size) and would solve all of your parking problems with the township and the DEP.
You see, David, how easy that was? I know that you are a very bright guy, but why did you not think of that a long time ago? Or, maybe you did.
Of course, it would be more like 30 acres after all my neighbors heard about it and sold out. And, of course, if I were Ireland, I would put a teeny little itsy bitsy chappel on the combined property and call it Christ Community Christian Chapel (total seats of 25) under a seperate but related organization to the Father of all of RT, Christ Church.
Then, I would put about 700 parking spots thereon, even though my tiny little chapel would not need so many. I think that would work just perfectly, don't you?
Sure you still do not like my 2000 buck per family solution? Wanna keep playing Footsies?
quote: Originally posted by: Rational "Of course, it would be more like 30 acres after all my neighbors heard about it and sold out. And, of course, if I were Ireland, I would put a teeny little itsy bitsy chappel on the combined property and call it Christ Community Christian Chapel (total seats of 25) under a seperate but related organization to the Father of all of RT, Christ Church. Then, I would put about 700 parking spots thereon, even though my tiny little chapel would not need so many. I think that would work just perfectly, don't you? Sure you still do not like my 2000 buck per family solution? Wanna keep playing Footsies?-- Edited by Rational at 12:58, 2005-02-18"
Lets see...$900k for your 3 acres....That's an extra $9M just for parking...and lets not forget, your area is zoned residential and requires extra setbacks, etc...Probably wouldn't be possible...
900 K for me, and then 250 k for the rest of my neighbors! They will pay anything to get the hell out of here.
Anyway, even if it was another 10 Megs for the good doctor reverend, that just takes another little sermon. He will just get up there and tell everyone how they are going to go to hell unless they dig deep to avoid the devil. And of course, the Lemings that they are, they will! You know that, come on!
Interesting discussion! Wouldn't the Highlands Act prevent the paving for 700 parking spaces within the Highlands Preservation Area? Also, would such a use even be permitted within a residential area? I'm hoping that the answers are yes and no, respectively. If not, perhaps the Ordinance Committee has a little more work to do.
I would say that our tiny little "Christ Community Christian Chapel" would be pretty immune to all those laws, not so much because of the law, but because of the politically correct state that we live in. Why, only a big bad bully would pick on Chirst Community Christian Chapel should they want to move into the neighborhood with their little 25 person place, right?
BTW - I had to laugh - . When I proposed, earlier, that Ireland purchase this places as a starter, and I recommended that he simply bulldoze the two structure on this land (a house and a shed), I then realized that he would be bulldozing a buildiing that is LARGER than the size of the proposed Chabad School that made all the news in the DR last week! Pretty funny. But, that would be nothing for Ireland, a man of unlimited talents and abilities in the arena of Consipicious Consumption!
