There was a good write-up of the last PB meeting in today's Neighbor News. Cindy Forrest has been doing a great job, in my opinion. Detailed, concise, non-biased reporting. I hope she keeps up the good work.
Also, did anyone catch Doody's letter in the DR? With friends like him, CC doesnt need any opposition. After his last embarrasment with that ridiculous letter, now he announces that the town can tax the church if they want. Hey, did he join VORT when I wasnt looking?
I am not so sure on the reporting...it seems hit or miss with that paper...mr jones does come off as a bit of a jerk-off though, and I am suprised the reporter used his reference to VORT as "VortiES".
Mr. Jones clearly has his opinion on this matter but is he helping his cause with such an immature ranting? I can respect someone whom I have a difference of opinion with, if they act in a professional and adult manner. Mr. Jones clearly thinks his knowledge of land use laws and fire safety is superior to that of the planning board attorney, our mayor (who also is an attorney), Mr. Maglione (a well respected fire fighting authority) and anyone who has issues with the merits of the plans submitted by Christ Church. Further he seems to have a complete misunderstanding of the role of planning board members, they are volunteers, not paid employees. Mr. Jones may be surprised to learn that you cannot be in the "restroom on his cellphone trying to find another easy planning board gig" - Yes that is what he had to say about the Mayor of Rockaway Twp. should a judge someday rule in the favor of Christ Church. His quote when read completely show sheer desperation.
If you have not read the Neighbor News, I suggest you do. The quote from Mr. Jones is a classic.
Happy New Year to all,
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
I have the 12/22 and 12/29 issues of the Neighbor News, but can NOT find the article (dying to read it).
I receive the Boonton / Mountain Lakes edition, so either the article did not appear there or I am missing something that should be obvious.
If anyone has access to a scanner and can convert to pdf (or just about any other format), I would LOVE to read the article...You can email it to me (addr in my profile).
Thanks in advance!
JR
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I don't have a scanner.. the Neighbor News does not appear to have an online website (i.e I couldn't find one).. and I missed my recycling this week. .. I've taken the liberty of typing out the article as a WORD Document.. blame any spelling and/or grammar errors on either the original author or Word's spell/grammar check... but please NOT the typist <haha>
Take care,
-C
______________________________________________
Christ Church Anything But Merry and Bright
by: Cindy Forrest (staff writer)
Neighbor News, December 29, 2004
ROCKAWAY TOWNSHIP – Sentiments of ‘tis the season to be jolly’ stopped at the door of the new gymnasium at Copeland School where the December Rockaway Township Planning Board meeting was held. Tempers and animosity seemed to run high on both sides of the table as architect Kenneth Gruskin testified about his design plans for the proposed Christ Church campus at the former Agilent site at the intersection of Green Pond and Meriden Roads.
Through questions posed initially by Christ Church attorney, Wendy Berger, Gruskin went through the rather mundane task of describing the layout of the building and the expected use and capacity of each area.
The first real point of contention occurred when Gruskin mentioned two towers that would flank the entrance to the Grand Foyer. He noted that the structures would not meet the 45 foot-height restrictions under normal circumstances. Gruskin said that the towers would stand 55 feet 2 inches and would serve no purpose except to stand as a religious symbol, a testament to the strength of God. Therefore, he asserted that ht township’s zoning ordinance which allows height exemptions for religious steeples would apply. William Dimin, the township attorney immediately questioned the proposal of two towers citing the language in the ordinance referring to a single tower.
Dimin told Berger that while the ordinance made plural references to flagpoles and masts, the reference to a tower was singular. “I am going to have to be pretty convinced that this is not meant to be singular,” Dimin said. To which Berger shot back, “I don’t have to convince you, Mr. Dimin, I have to convince the board.” Dimin responded that it is his responsibility to advise the board and he asked Berger for specific documentation that the towers would qualify as a “religious symbol.”
Berger told the board that the towers were inspired by a Biblical passage that she translated as “God is the tower of our strength.” She offered to have the exact scriptural reference at the next planning board meeting.
Under questioning from Michael Edelson, the attorney for the opposition group, Voices of Rockaway Township, Gruskin said that there had been four towers in the original design. Dimin said he wondered whether the church’s interpretation of the ordinance could be used to justify up to 10 towers. To which Berger snapped, “We didn’t propose 10 towers, we proposed two.”
Russell Jones a spokesman for Residents for Truth in Rockaway, a pro-church group, had this to say about the proceedings, “Mr. Dimin was his mean old self but why didn’t they mention the angry, cantankerous, puffed-up RT fireman guy… and how the mayor played to his VoRT constituency with questions that rivaled those of Inspector stall, stall, stall Closeau who re-emerged as his old self in these proceedings duly representing the aforementioned VoRTies by asking a litany of fumbling, bumbling questions that went no where but wasted more time which is part of his job description – it’s a good thing he can get paid for work like this because when a judge gets to hear his drivel, the gavel will come down and this guy will be in the restroom on his cell phone trying to find another easy planning board gig.”
Jones was referring to questioning from Samuel Maglione of S.A. Maglione Assoc., a fire safety consultant to the planning board. In a separate meeting on October 29, between the township consultant and engineers representing Christ Church there was an incident described vaguely as ‘rude and unprofessional.” In a report Maglione submitted to Planning Board Chairman Morton Dicker, he said that he was ridiculed and disrespected. “In my opinion the behavior was unprofessional,” said Maglione. When Maglione began referring to the incident, Dimin had to ask him to “keep personalities out of this.”
The fire expert’s questions dealt with the building’s adherence to fire codes. “My concern is about response to day time emergencies,” said Maglione, “since the township fire department is volunteer we need to make this facility as firefighter friendly as possible.” When Maglione talked about a convergence of various code requirements, Berger asked for the specific codes that he was citing. “There isn’t one specific code,” Dimins responded, “We are using a practical approach here because there a myriad of codes that would apply.” Maglione jumped in saying that codes are just a history of failures. A classic example he said is the World Trade Center “that was build to code but if it were rebuilt today, they would not use the same standards.”
Gruskin offered a floor-by-floor discussion of the proposed building elaborating on the specific function and seating capacity of each space. This is significant because the amount of parking spaces required by the township is based mostly on the number of people that could populate the building at any one time. And, even though there is abundant acreage available at the site to create addition parking, environmentally that approach would create increased problems and pressures on the project designers.
The Christ Church plan calls for an almost total demolition of the exiting building and a rebuild on the closely the same footprint. It also calls for a controversial ‘underbuilding’ parking lot which experts, such as Maglione, refuse to define as anything but ‘underground’ parking. The lot would be created by the removal of a berm allowing cars access from ground level. The backside of the parking would be below grade, which is the sticking point for opponents.
According to Gruskin, his design incorporated the Church’s philosophy of mind, body and soul into his design. He said that there would be a two-story grand foyer, a 512-seat sanctuary and 17 classrooms for kindergarten through fifth-grade students. Six other classrooms would be set aside for a future increase in student enrollment. The sanctuary would be built on a slope to maximize sight lines and there will be 1894 seats on the main level and 618 seats in the balcony.
The upper level of the facility would include space for administrative office, a library and rooms for music, art and drama instruction. There will also be a multi-purpose room, a fitness center and locker rooms. The 600-seat fellowship hall would have a kitchen next to it and it would serve as the dining hall for students. The fellowship hall will be accessible from both levels of the building by elevators.
The plans call for the removal of existing underground oil tanks used to heat the existing 283,000 square foot building. The new facility would be heated through the installation of a natural gas line, Gruskin said.
Questions about how the seating capacities and by extension the required number of parking spaces were calculated did not seem to indicate that both parties were in agreement.
Animosity over the proposed Christ Church campus has erupted on numerous occasions and emotion on both sides has run high over the past year as the planning board has worked on the issues.
The initial round of hearings centered on whether a megachurch had the same conditional use exceptions as a church. Once it was decided that there was no differentiation between the two types of religious entities in terms of township ordinance the proceeding again went forward.
Then the Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act was signed into law. The new legislation would have had the direct impact on the Christ Church project so they went back to the drawing board and designed a scaled down proposal. They also sought and received an exemption to the Highland regulations based on the new design.
Almost immediately, the Sierra Club, an environmental activist group, came out again the Christ Church project. And shortly thereafter Rockaway Township officials filed an appeal with the Appellate Division of Superior Court challenging the exemption issued to Christ Church. The question of the legality of the exemption and whether the DEP misapplied the law has shifted over to the courts because according to township attorney Edward Buzak, “There is no appeal process with the DEP.”
The focus of the controversy is a $14 million deal entered into by Christ Church to purchase 107 acres of property at the intersection of Green Pond Road and Meriden Road from Agilent Technology. Church leaders propose to use 58 acres of the land to build a 2,500-seat sanctuary, a private K-5 school, an office building, meeting rooms, banquet hall, reception areas, recreational facilities and various other buildings.
Christ Church and their supporters say that the project would improve environmental conditions at the site will improve while some residents feel that the loss of tax revenue, the traffic impact and the strain on support services make the project undesirable.
Rev. David Ireland, pastor of Christ Church, has said that because of his congregation’s growth to 5,000 members their current location in Montclair does not meet the needs of his church.
The tenth public hearing on the Christ Church project ended at 11 p.m. with questions being posed by Louis Sceusi, township mayor and Planning Board member, to Gruskin about the design details. This meeting was the first since October because the November election and school availability delayed the hearings.
The next meeting is Jan. 31, 2005, 8 p.m.at Copeland Middle School.
Thank you for typing it up. A VERY interesting read - especially the rants!
JR
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"Mr. Jones clearly has his opinion on this matter but is he helping his cause with such an immature ranting?"
As an evangelical, I would like to thank you for your gracious words about Mr. Jones... Personnally i think his comments are a disgrace to the faith he claims to have... I had been told by several people about him, all negative (including evangelicals)... based on this quote it is hard for me to disagree with them or to defend him...
The fact that cc allows people who either "represent them" or are "affiliated" with them carry on like this is an absolute disgrace!
I realize you feel he is entitled to his opinion & he is... but as a professing Christian, he is not entitled to make such statements about our government officials... in fact, the very Bible he no doubt owns tells him that he is to respect & obey them as they are an institution in place by God ... although these men are not perfect, Mr Jones still must respect their position... His name calling not only shows him to be immature as an adult, but he is acting like an immature Christian
A number of evangelicals in RT are becoming are becoming fed up with cc's horrible example of the Christian life and on their behalf please accept my apologies for this poor example ... if any of them had anything to do with "crayon threats"... trust me... The Lord will not let the guilty party get away with it
On the other hand, your forum is helping them make their case. They are using it to show that RT is a town of bigots. When you rant & rave, you ENERGIZE them to come... let me repeat that everyone.... your negative remarks make them want to come!
I believe with all my heart that there are many God fearing people at cc ... they will be touched when you humbly, kindly and repectfully prove to them that the church will adversely affect your lives. Stick to the issues! ... If you don't, not an evangelical in town can say a word to cc, becuase your very own quotes will be thrown back in our faces
Our case has been entirely based on facts. We have many evangelicals who openly support our efforts in opposition of the CC plans. It is very interesting that many people do not know that there is an evangelical church currently on Green Pond Rd. This church has been there for many years and there has never been a problem with anything.
One poster on this board has clearly state an opinion on religion. That is his opinion and he is welcomed to his opinion. However to make the giant leap from one persons opinion to an entire towns position on matters of religion is outragous. I am sure the good people in the membership of CC can see the difference between one persons opionion and an entire towns stance on religion. I know their PR firm would like to make something of it however there is simply nothing to it.
I am glad you have pointed out that Mr. Jones attitude does not reflect that of a typical evangelical christian, however I think most of us knew that.
When all is said and done this matter is about the size of the project, the negative impact on the community, demands on our infrastructure, loss of taxes, traffic and the environment. Regardless of how they attempt to twist this the project is simply too large for this location.
Thank you for sharing your point of view.
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
I just had a nice talk with Pastor Allan Maitha from the Green Pond Bible Chapel. I made sure he was very clear that the opposition to the Christ Church application was based on the size, scope and magnitude. We had a very nice talk and I was happy to hear that he clearly understands our position.
If anyone would like more information on this matter please feel free to call me.
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
As usual I agree with most everything you say, but I think your assumptions about cc people is incorrect.... they know & believe what they are told.
The applicant is saying in its own "circles" that the opposition at this time is primarily vort plus about another 50-100 people at best, claiming you have 2 issues:
1) you are against freedom of religion (specifically their kind of church) and 2) you are predjudice..... and these are the issues that concern you & the other issues are a "smokescreen"... and the proof is your have not clearly presented any other issues, since they have clearly mailed everyone else the "facts"
It very nicely divides the town into 2 parts 1) those that are tolerant & for cc 2) those that are intolerant/predjudice & against cc ...
Their sources are some of the angry quotes in the paper & forums like this... I applaud those who want to "tone it down"... because the quotes are being used by cc to get away from the issues & to focus on the hate (don't you see that on nj.com)
We are well aware of what they are saying to their membership. Some of their members have been in touch with us. I know that they have been less than truthful to some. I have had some long and interesting talks with those who have been involved in the "community relations, crisis communications and reputation management programs" they have used outside consultant on.
They can mount what ever public relations campaign they want, they can lie about who we are and what we believe in from now until the cows come home, it does not make it the truth. When all is said and down the planning board will rule if this plan is appriopriate and if CC does not like the answer they can take the matter to court, which we all know they plan to do. The judge will evaluate the situation and at that point we will know what the future holds.
I know, because I have spoken to some members, that not all believe all they are being told. I know some people will believe that we have some hidden agenda, and that is very sad, but again it does not make it true. I am a Christian, my husband is Jewish I have family with very varied skin tones. I spend my life helping those with serious medical conditions, of whom are of varied faiths and ethnic origins. I know who I am and I need not 'prove' myself to David Ireland, nor anyone else.
The facts are simple. The project CC plans for 140 Green Pond Rd is too large for the area, harmful to the environment, a large tax burden, and will create significant traffic on a small roadway. If members of Christ Church would like a tour of the area I would be more than happy to assist them in anyway I can.
I respect and thank you for your input. It is always good to get input from as many people as possible.
Best wishes,
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
The ultimate decision(s) made by the planning board and later on the courts will not be made based on factual information and logic, but on politics. It is very important to understand this most basic element of the decision making criteria as to whether cc gets the go ahead to move into RT. That realization would lead to a certain stratedgy that would be successful for those opposed to this thing.