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The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board -> Rockaway Township Free Speech -> activity on NJ.com
Post Info TOPIC: activity on NJ.com
Lisa Salberg


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activity on NJ.com
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Good morning,


I woke today to find someone was "talking to me" as I slept last night, how so you wonder?  The person on NJ.com under the name of Monster seems to think I am posting on the NJ.com board under the name 'justfactCC'.  This same poster has called very person on that board a member of Voices Of Rockaway Twp aka VORT, he is very wrong.  Upon review of his posts I found that for the past several months he has claimed just about everyone on the board who disagrees with him is either me or a member of VORT.  This is just not true, while many people who support our efforts have posted there we do not get involved in battles with people like 'monster' 'formerD' and the rest of his personalities.  He has every right to free speech, but no right to call people names like liar and frauds.  He is a desperate instigator who thrives from attention, this is my opinion and it is based on months of observation.


Interestingly upon review it is clear that this person has violated the rules set forth by NJ.com and I will again be reaching out to Dean Betz to discuss this today. 


If I did attempt to post this message on NJ.com it would surely be deleted therefor I am posting here as I know they (monster at el)  read this board every few minutes.


Have a nice day!


Lisa



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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks. The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Rational


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Quote:


Interestingly upon review it is clear that this person has violated the rules set forth by NJ.com and I will again be reaching out to Dean Betz to discuss this today. 


 


Do you seriously not understand that CC controls that venue?  What do you need to occur to be convinced? 


Do not even bother trying to deal with their management unless you have some money in your hands.  Clearly, they paid their "commissions", and they are now simply getting what they paid for.  Done.  Forget about it.


BTW - that's what makes the world go around.



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JohnQ


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Any update Lisa??? There has been some huge trimming going on this week...it is amazing to see what is allowed to remain in the other town forums.

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Rational


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John,


I spoke with 3 PR firms in our area about 4 months ago.  The problem on nj.com is fixable.  But, we (RT) will have to substantially "Pony - up" to do so.  That was the concensus opinion - - - that is how things work.




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THINKER


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Has anyone else noticed that once we make a statement here about nj.con allowing other really nasty posts on other boards not being deleted, then magically they are. Do you ever get the feeling that this board is being closely monitored. Makes me wonder why. If so few of us are against the church, then why bother? If this is a slam dunk for Ireland, why bother? It's clearly a town fighting to keep something that is too big out of the town. Yet, we are drawing alot of attention. Much more than what we deserve. Other towns have had their fights with big buildings and little attention has been drawn. Why is this different? Who's making this something more?? Who's really to gain from this? I'm sure many of CC's members don't want to trek up here for they know they will be stuck in much traffic. Plus it's a long ride. Hmm, what's the real story here? Why the PR firms, the money and power being used? It's only land. And there's a lot of it in NJ probably more adaptable, cheaper, and full use of the land instead of only 1/2. Makes me wonder why the big fight for 140 GPR.  

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JohnQ


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I have cut and pasted this from a previous poster - opinions please:


A federal program called "Faith Based Initiatives" is at the root of what we are all seeing going on here in town. Dr. Reverend David Ireland has a "Community Development Corporation" as one of his many subsidiaries under the rhuberic of his Church Business. This organization drinks money from the federal government to pay for drug programs, prisoner rehab, etc. However, he also is smart enough to realize that this is a good mechanism to move urban housing to the "country". Low income housing is of great advantage to his constituancy and that is part of his plan. This church business on Green Pond Road is secondary to his real plan which is to establish low income inner city housing out here in the second largest township in the state of NJ (the largest being Vineland in South New Jersey).

Watch out folks cause you are not really seeing the true monetary intents of this man. He wants to establish a Church that his members can not get to easily and then use his Community Development Corporation and its existing relationship with the "Faith Based Initiative" program that he has with the Federal Government in order to move his congregation out here. In so doing, he will make an absolute fortune on the real estate transactions. No more Federal Housing - - - Faith Based Initiative Housing with guys like Ireland as the middle men.

Anyone doubt it? Well, - - - maybe you should call the Mayor and ask him about his meeting with the Reverend and Bret Shundler about 10 months ago and ask what Ireland declared at that time.

Ireland, as I have indicated before, made it clear to the mayor that there is a phase three to this project which involved bringing low income and diversity to the second largest township in the state of NJ. Rockaway Township is way low on their quota of Mt. Laurel Housing. Bringing 1,200 units of this type of housing to this town is where the real money is; you people just have not seen that aspect of things advertised in our town meetings or the newspapers. You need to establish a more personal relationship with our town officials to get the real story on things. And then when you do, they will tell you that you should not discuss these things cause it will cause more damage to our town if these things get out.



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RTDweller


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I can't comment on alot of that post, but I can tell you that many Mega Churches have turned down the $$$ for "faith based initiatives" becuase in their opinion, you either have to compromise the Christian message or lie (and go ahead as you want) to get the $$.


 


Not surprisingly when I posted this on NJ.com it was deleted within 5 minutes



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Jay R


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nj.com evasion
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Amazing how quick they are to attack and then try to change the subject when their posts are challenged.  It's like being attacked by multiple hit and run drivers - they make obscene claims and then try to change the topic if someone responds.


I can't believe nj.con allows the crap from these posters to continue...


What a shame that the PR Whiner and his boss allow this to contine...


Mr. Jennings - where's our front page story about the attack that has been launched against Rockaway Township on nj.con?  Let's see the OTHER SIDE of this story for once.


 


3274.1.1.1.1. facts are
by RTGPR, 12/8/04 0:00 ET
Re: Care to explain your anger? by Greyarea, 12/8/04


... You were lied to by another group that was trying to mislead people about the church because they are against there faith. The church has sent the real facts out so dont worry so much


3274.1.1.1.1.1. please tell us
by JustFactsCC, 12/8/04 0:06 ET
Re: Care to explain your anger? by Greyarea, 12/8/04


Which group lied to us and please also tell us exactly what the lies were. We'd all like to see it in writing!


3274.1.1.1.1.1.1. check the church flyer
by RTGPR, 12/8/04 0:18 ET
Re: Care to explain your anger? by Greyarea, 12/8/04


It dispels the myths and gives the facts. Try it learning can be fun






3274.1.1.1.1.1.1.1. why can't you answer a question>?
by JustFactsCC, 12/8/04 7:36 ET
Re: Care to explain your anger? by Greyarea, 12/8/04

You were asked a direct question and you answered with 'go check the flier'.

Are you a lawyer? Do you make a living refusing to answer questions? Hey - maybe you are mr ireland - he seems to do pretty fine not answering questions also!




Mr. Jennings - where's our story about the hundreds of posts telling lies for cc?  Lies about the pb meeting turnout...Lies about the citizens of Rockaway Township.  Lies about what the DEP actually looked at...Retold hundreds of times (good PR trick, Whiner - keep telling lies until they start looking like the truth):


3302. ROCKAWAY WINTER WALK
by monsterRT, 12/8/04 11:04 ET


Plenty of nice things in town. This church thing has been covered by all the papers and draws low turn out at meetings. The DEP has looked at the plan also and given the okay. I and most of the people in town wish this church well in this either way.



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Rational


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RE: activity on NJ.com
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Quoting Jay:


"Mr. Jennings - where's our front page story about the attack that has been launched against Rockaway Township on nj.con?  Let's see the OTHER SIDE of this story for once."


--------------------------


Exactly who do you think is controlling the DR's editorial position on CC?  That is why you will not see any articles from the perspective that you describe.  You folks need to do what I did and call a bunch of PR firms and learn how the system works.  And I ain't kidding.  So naive!


 



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THINKER


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That last one made me want to puke. But I loved the response.






3302.1. translation
by JustFactsCC, 12/8/04 11:26 ET
Re: ROCKAWAY WINTER WALK by monsterRT, 12/8/04

For those who do NOT speak irelandish (similar to outlandish...), here is a translation:

"Plenty of nice things in town."

Will everyone PLEASE stop talking about cc so we can sneak in under the radar!

"This church thing has been covered by all the papers and draws low turn out at meetings."

We're so tired of all the interest from the 99% of Rockaway Township residents who oppose this massive redevelopment project. PLEASE - just think about Christmas or something. Forget we exist. You know, if you residents didn't keep making these the most highly attended planning board meetings in the history of the county, we'd be able to have more meetings, but NOOOO, you have to send so many people that we can't fit in the muni building!

"The DEP has looked at the plan also and given the okay."

The DEP has granted an exemption without seeing the full plans...Wow - it pays to be politically connected. Too bad the exemption is very narrow and only covers the Highland's Law.

" I and most of the people in town wish this church well in this either way."

I wish we could convince someone in this town that they want this massive redevelopment project in their backyard. Oh well - I'll keep posting the same drivel until everyone gives up.



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Rational


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Quoting RTDweller:


"I can't comment on alot of that post, but I can tell you that many Mega Churches have turned down the $$$ for "faith based initiatives" becuase in their opinion, you either have to compromise the Christian message or lie (and go ahead as you want) to get the $$."


--------------------------------------


That is a good one!  Ireland lie?  Ireland and the Christian message???  Is that message to trample all over your neighbors?  You can not be serious!


The man is getting Faith Based Initiative Money right now.



-- Edited by Rational at 11:24, 2004-12-08

-- Edited by Rational at 12:18, 2004-12-08

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GadFly


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Day 2 - the offer to ireland
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3303. Still waiting for ireland to meet with RT residents
by DuckourTown, 12/8/04 13:10 ET

The question remains - how long will mr ireland duck the requests of Rockaway Township citizens to hold a town hall style meeitng with us to dispell the 'myths' (as he calls it).

Today is day 2 of the count. Will mr ireland see us this winter?

mr ireland - The good citizens of Rockaway Township request that you clear 2-3 hours of your busy schedule to spend it with us, the citizens. The purpose of the meeting will be for you to dispell the 'myths' and lies that you say have been leveled at you. It will be a chance for you to give us your side of the story and for us, the citizens of Rockaway Township, to ask you questions about your planned move in an informal setting. I'm sure we'll get hundreds of citizens to come to the meeting. I know that's a small group for you, but it would be worth your while if you want to win over the hearts and minds of Rockaway Township residents. This is a golden opportunity for you to clear the air and dispell the myths.

Meet with us informally. Answer our questions. Make your statements. No lawyers, no planners, no PR people...Just the residents of Rockaway, members of cc, and of course, the press to publish the results of the meeting.

How about it, rev ireland - you claim you want to join our township. You claim there are lies being spread about you. Please use this opportunity to clear the air and set us, the citizens of Rockaway Township straight. Please do not continue to refuse our request to meet, or the vast majority of Rockaway Township citizens will have no choice, but to assume that you have no intention of ever cooperating with our township and it's citizens. Please don't let this happen. Come talk to us now. Use this opportunity to open doors in the community you want to join.



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GadFly


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Lisa - they say you are in 'trouble'
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3301.2.1. you got it backwards
by freere, 12/8/04 13:15 ET
Re: why hate Rockaway? by thehibernian, 12/8/04

The people against the church are for agilent. They always loved that company and all the traffic and dumping. It is when a church wants to come to town they get mad. I have read so many articles in the star ledger and daily record about the small group against this church. They got in trouble many times for saying things against the christ churches religion.

This group fears the truth and facts. They try to change the subject when facts are brought out. The christ church has sent plenty of inormation on this out to people here.It seems they have closed their minds to the facts. All the group against the church wants to talk about it religious things and lash out at those who want to only go by the facts.

Okay now go ahead and keep attacking people who post the truth. This is just a church from Montclair that wants to move to town even the states DEP has seen no problem with it.



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Rational


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RE: activity on NJ.com
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Gadfly -


That most generous of profers that you have been extending to Ireland has not been picked up by the newspapers.  It certainly is newsworthy, wouldn't everyone agree?  I wonder why the media has not published anything about it (not).


Daniel



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RTDweller


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Hey Rational... regarding your response to my post


That is a good one!  Ireland lie?  Ireland and the Christian message???  Is that message to trample all over your neighbors?  You can not be serious!


The man is getting Faith Based Initiative Money right now.


                             --------------------------------------------


If you've seen any of my other posts, they are based on what I would call "mega church" trends... I have studied them for almost 15 years & visited many.


I just don't want anyone to think this is how it plays out in all mega churches, because its not. Many choose not to move into areas where the public is so against them.


I was only reporting that many large churches have declined the money because to them it is not all about the money, but rather the message & the people (of course you need money to operate, but how you get it matters).


I was also pointing out that my post was almost immediately deleted, because it was not pro cc. I am not against cc or Pastor Ireland. I can not say he has personally lied, but I can tell you they have not been "candid" & that is sad.


I know you will object & that is ok... For me the saddest part of all this is that RT is getting a sour taste in its mouth for Christianity... for whatever reason CC seems to have forgotten how much "integrity counts" & while I do not question their integrity , I do question the methods they have used to show RT they have it.


Thanks




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Rational


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Quoting RTDweller:


"I was only reporting that many large churches have declined the money because to them it is not all about the money, but rather the message & the people (of course you need money to operate, but how you get it matters)."


----------------------


The Christian message is not in doubt here.  The situation here is that this man is not really Christian in the religious / spiritual sense of the word, else he would not be persuing this endeavour.  He is trying to force his will upon an entire township of 24,500 people and could not care less about his IMPACT on them.


He sees RT as his servants.  Shame on him.



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RTDweller


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Rational.. From what I see in my neighborhood,  your opinion is shared by 99% of RT... in fact it is hard to disagree with it at this point


(CC people please take note)


PS sorry to strike such a cord about the federal $$$... among many evangelicals the feeling is "beware of those who take the $$$" ... that was my point



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GadFly


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Couldn't resist the repost
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3331.1.1.1. rocgirl
by RTGPR, 12/9/04 11:10 ET
Re: Wow - overwhelmed by rockawaygaI, 12/9/04


I did looked up your old post. I see you take both sides of this. Now that I know you are just kidding don't worry.

Did you see that guy hunglow last night he really tripped over himself. Glad I was able to help him with his mix up before he mislead people.

Again since a looked up your other posts I know you are fine with this.


 


3331.1.1.1.1. Sorry RTGPR
by rockawaygaI, 12/9/04 12:40 ET
Re: Wow - overwhelmed by rockawaygal, 12/9/04


"Did you see that guy hung low last night he really tripped over himself."

I am sorry RTGPR - obviously we hang out at different bars, and I wouldn't be caught dead in the one you were in!

Have a nice day!!!



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BR


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RE: activity on NJ.com
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Big Time pruning going on over there right now. They must have given the PR firm or tED system administrator access to the forum. Any anti-cc comment is being taken down, yet all of tED's nonsense and the PR lies remain.

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Rational


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BR -


Don't cry in your beer.  That is just how the cookie crumbles when a township does not have PR representation.  We have choosen that route (no PR firm), so we should just shut up about CC's bbs on nj.con.


The complaining about the situation sounds pretty childish to me. 



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BR


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quote:
Originally posted by: Rational
"BR - Don't cry in your beer.  That is just how the cookie crumbles when a township does not have PR representation.  We have choosen that route (no PR firm), so we should just shut up about CC's bbs on nj.con. The complaining about the situation sounds pretty childish to me.  "
I think we got your point the 7th or 8th time you said this Craig. BTW I am not complaing, just making an observation. Also, I'm a scotch drinker. I only drink beer in bars where the glasses are dirty.

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JohnQ


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I'll take that beer...and I agree with BR, it is a joke on nj.con. I know Jennings reads this board - how about a little investigative journalism Rob???

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Rational


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It's Daniel, BR - - - Craig is on a business trip.  Obviously, you have not gotten my point, since you keep pointing out the obvious about nj.con.  This situation has been in place for over a year now.


John, - - - why would Rob do any investigative reporting?  It is very clear that the DR's Editorial position is in total support of CC.  I wonder why that is so?



-- Edited by Rational at 16:16, 2004-12-09

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JohnQ


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Just throwing it out there - I want to confirm my own suspisions...what a tangled web of decieit CC has tried to weave.

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Rational


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Quote:  "- - - what a tangled web of decieit CC has tried to weave."


 


Is that another Christian Value?  Bear with me - - - I am just trying to learn more about these things.    I want to become more at one with my secular Christian background.





-- Edited by Rational at 19:06, 2004-12-09

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JohnQ


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Are you asking for my opinion?? In my humble opinion, this is nothing more than a business looking for land to move it's operations to. It cannot be denied that the uses outside of worship would shadow the "church" side of business. Therefore, I would conclude that this land deal should be treated as any other entity would be - no special considerations, no exemptions. Now, I know that CC is going to cry foul when they are denied, and that is why I believe it is taking so long for this thing to play out - homework is being done, and the planning board will be in good shape for the eventual court date.

I will leave my personal religious beliefs out of my opinions...

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Rational


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John,


I agree.  CC is just another business and should be treated as such.  Amen.



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GadFly


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Defamation???
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FYI - As posted on nj.con.


...thought you might like to know / take action...


 


3360.1. NASD
by freere, 12/10/04 12:49 ET
Re: What's this by TM01, 12/10/04


What happen was one of the four people that are in a group against the church. Got in trouble with the NASD because they signed another persons name to a legal paper and were pretending to be them. It was done without the other person knowing or concenting. The person who did it was fined and left the field they were in because of the shame.


 


3354.3.1.1.1.1. they left the nasd field
by freere, 12/10/04 12:55 ET
Re: Law was not followed by RTGPR, 12/10/04


It was very shamful what they did. Even they know that, the person who did this act was so ashamed they left the field forever after they were fined. It was wrong to pretend to be someone else and sign that persons name to a legal paper.The person did not know or consent to it . This is why people have trouble following this group and your thinking. It was very wrong what they did. You should never forger another persons name to a legal paper.



-- Edited by GadFly at 12:26, 2004-12-10

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GadFly


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Race Baiting
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To Mr Jennings of the Daily Record - Where is the article about the race baiting and hateful lies being told on nj.com?  You have written two headline articles about this crap...When do we see #3???





mr ireland and mr whinestone - your race baiting will not work.


The residents of Rockaway Township find your tactics on nj.com utterly disgusting....Here's the msg from the cc supporter:


3361.2. Agreed!
by RTLUVScc, 12/10/04 13:21 ET
Re: I noticed by freere, 12/10/04


I keep asking some simple questions..for example, can you name a town that was "ruined" by a church?

Also, after nearly two years of harrassing Dr. Ireland, they still can't find one person in Montclair that has said anyting bad about the CC.

Dr. Ireland is not one of these overly agressively basketball players attacking patrons in the third row. He's not on welfare begging always asking for a handout. In fact, the only people whining are from the township. He's not rapping and he doesn't wear his pants down by his knees. Nope, that's not Dr. Ireland. He went to a good Christian university - Liberty, where he received his Ph.D. That's why we all like him.

Even the heart of New Jersey conservativism, Brett Schundler (who won Rockaway in 2001), supports Dr. Ireland.

We all know that education is important. And we all know that the more education you have, the better you are to adapt and succeed. Finally, we all know that there are few that are more educated in Rockaway when compared to Dr. Ireland.


3361.2.1.2. He has Family Values
by RTLUVScc, 12/10/04 13:31 ET
Re: I noticed by freere, 12/10/04


Everyone knows that Dr. Ireland supports family values. He's even gone to Trenton to support that kind of stuff. You won't find Dr. Ireland on Monday Night Football commercials with a naked woman that isn't his wife. His education makes him better than that. At least, we can agree on that, can't we?


3361.2.1.2.1.1. Dr. Ireland LOVES Morris County
by RTLUVScc, 12/10/04 13:39 ET
Re: I noticed by freere, 12/10/04


He even lives in Morris County -- in a town that is richer than Rockaway. In his town, you won't find a White Meadow-like section. No you won't. It's clear that he loves Morris County.

Dr. Ireland has complied with the law. He comes from a very conservative university - Liberty. That university is run by Rev. Faldwell. His university is inspiring a spiritual revolution across this country. Faldwell supports the Party of God. We all know that.

And like I said -- his name is Dr. Ireland and not some rapper like Dr. Dre. And you won't see him having some crazy hairdo protesting in the streets about the police like Slim Shady Sharpton.

3361.2.1.2.1.1.3.1. First facility found was in RT
by RTLUVScc, 12/10/04 13:56 ET
Re: I noticed by freere, 12/10/04

He believes in RT and he wants to improve RT's image. He wants people to know that RT is more than the White Meadow section. A lot people only think that that is the whole town. I keep trying to tell them that there are many beautiful people in Rockaway.

Dr. Ireland's education should be applauded. In an era when so many people are on welfare or selling drugs on the corner, he's not. He's been a leader for Family Values.

My two questions have never been disputed. No one can name one town that has been ruined by a church.



3362.1.1. Race is NEVER mentioned
by RTLUVScc, 12/10/04 13:47 ET
Re: Ugly race baiting by WhyTheAnger, 12/10/04


I think the only person obsesessed with race is you. Why do you always want to bring up the race issue? Judge people by the content of their character like Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice and Colin Powell and not Colin Ferguson.

Show me where I even mention race??? You are distorting this message.





-- Edited by GadFly at 12:57, 2004-12-10

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JohnQ


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RE: activity on NJ.com
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This is repugnant and disgraceful. I am appalled by CC for not standing up to their PR firm and saying enough is enough! Shame on Rob Jennings for not taking issue like a real journalist would!!

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