Islamic group wants mosque in Rockaway Proposal calls for use of existing warehouse
BY MATT MANOCHIO DAILY RECORD Wednesday, June 20, 2007
2 Comments ROCKAWAY -- The Budd Lake-based Islamic Center of Morris County has applied to the borough to convert an office and warehouse building on Mannino Drive into a mosque and community center.
The building is about 15,000 square feet and could accommodate about 80 families or 250 people, Mostafa Abuzeed, president of the Islamic Center of Morris County, said Tuesday.
"We have a mixed community, all different nationalities," Abuzeed said of the group's members, most of whom are from Morris County. He said he hopes to see a youth center established in the building, too, to teach children about drugs and other bad influences, and how to avoid them.
Abuzeed said members of the Islamic Center, a nonprofit religious education organization, usually worship at a mosque in Passaic County. He said that establishing a mosque and community center in Rockaway would offer a closer, more central location where the group could pray.
He said the Islamic Center is ready to buy the building on the condition that the borough's zoning board grant a change of use variance for the project to move forward.
"The location is good," Abuzeed, a Rockaway Township resident, said. "It's far away from everybody. There's no homes around. It's private. We wouldn't bother anybody and nobody would bother us."
He said the mosque would be located off of Route 46 so that traffic problems wouldn't occur. The building has enough parking, he said. There are currently 111 parking spaces at the building, according to the application.
Michael J. Spillane, an engineer hired by Rockaway to look at the plan, indicated in a June 14 memo to the borough that there are three issues worth discussing:
Whether the use is applicable for the building, in terms of zoning;
Traffic impact on the intersections of Route 46 and Mannino Drive, and Nichols Drive and Main Street;
Ensuring the building itself is adaptable from the existing office use to a group assembly use.
"The use I am referring to is not the zoning use, but the actual building use," Spillane wrote.
Spillane wrote that 82 departures from the site at the end of a prayer service is going to cause a backup at both intersections.
"The advantage is that the backup will affect essentially only two existing users, the mosque and Tilcon Asphalt," Spillane wrote. "The borough residents will rarely be affected."
Adrian Humbert, a planner hired by the borough to review the application, wrote in a June 4 letter that the applicant referred to "exploring alternate off-site parking arrangements. A full description of these alternative off-site parking arrangements should be presented for the board's consideration."
The peak times of activity at the mosque would be midday on Fridays, according to Humbert.
Humbert also wrote that proposed activities at the center, such as social events and dinners within the prayer hall and all-night devotional prayers "should be more fully described and the number of persons who might be expected to attend should be provided."
Abuzeed said the Islamic Center has been working on establishing a mosque for about a year. The first meeting before the zoning board is tentatively scheduled for July 3.
"The application seems to be in good condition so far," he said.
He said an important component of the community center would be to invite members of the non-Islamic community to meet with his group on a regular basis to dispel any preconceived notions people might have about Islam.
"Our plan is to invite the community and neighbors to get to know us so we can know about them, too," he said, later adding, "We're not all terrorists."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Manochio can be reached at (973) 989-0652 or mmanochi@gannett.com.
--- Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:21 am They may "not all [be] terrorists." But with polls of adherents to Islam showing that a disturbingly high percentage approve of others killing the "infidel" (meaning Christians, Jews, and non-believers), this makes me uneasy.
I say this as a supporter of the church to be built on Green Pond Rd (which some Rockaway residents opposed on grounds of "traffic congestion"). The faithful who will attend the Green Pond church are genuinely peaceful people. Reader Comment Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:21 am I say good for them, a low impact use for that building would be better than turning it into a distribution warehouse with tons of trucks coming and going at all hours of the day or night. Let's just hope the citizens of Rockaway Boro are smart enough to see this as a positive and not a negative use as there are so many other uses it's currently zoned for that could adversely affect the community. I welcome them with an open mind and open arms.
Given recent history that Americans have had with the Muslim religion and the unique concept of Jihad that is part of its canon, I believe that fear is an absolutely appropriate human reaction to the situation at hand. G-d wired us to be discriminating in our dealings with other people(s) as part of our defense mechanism. And to those secular progressive liberals who find this statement to be abhorent, then I would ask you the following question:
Would you bring your children to a Muslim Pediatrician? We would not - - - the potential risk is immense and the alternatives are many.
My children's medical group has a Muslim doctor as part of the partnership. She has never once been disrespectful or not genuinely concerned whenever we have had to go and have gotten her during her rotation. Always professional, always easy going, and could care less what race or religion we are. I do not throw her into the same general boiling pot that you would like me to based on her race or religion in return. My upbringing while being highly religious based did not cloud my judgment, I do not fall back on my religious upbringing to try to justify who I should like, marry, or associate with. I have a free thinker and as such, know the difference between religious bias and alarmist doctrine. Do not allow your anger towards terrorists cloud your judgment over group of people searching for a quiet place to pray and call their own. See it for what it is, not for what you are afraid it could be based on those same select terroristic zealots. I watch the comments on the threads at the daily record forum and just shake my head in disgust as there was a time here in Rockaway Township, back in the days when I was a young school child where the very things being posted now towards the Muslim group were aimed at my religion and religious beliefs. I can remember taking time off from school for my high holidays and being market absent or having a teacher assign a test for a day when my holy holidays were and giving me a zero for not being there to take it and not offering a retest because of her own religious bias. Thankfully my own children do not have to deal with this type of mind set as I did. Thankfully our society has grown to be tolerant of others, or have they?
I think that these folks are very respectful right up til the point where they kill you. Has it ever occurred to you that some Eman could issue a Fatwah requiring all Muslim doctors to kill their patients on a certain date as part of their Jihad? Are you really willing to risk your kids lives because you think that this doctor acts nicely towards you?
I must say that I am only glad that my parents were not so politically correct during my upbringing. They never would have risked my life in the manner in which you so calously rist that of your own kids. Quoting a recent posting from an Al Qaeda website:
"Those who Cure You are those who will Kill You".
What do you think that means? Do you think that the Muslims in charge of that religion have any regard for you, your kids or that doctor? Name another religion on this planet in which killing the infidel is actually encouraged by their scripture. Personally, when their leaders say something like that, I take them seriously.
From what I know, the sanctity of life is formost in importance in both the Roman Catholic and the Jewish religions. I think that the exact opposite is true of the Muslim faith. I think that you need to come to grips with that reality of this religion as your liberal approach to things is not going to change them. Being nice to them is not the answer.
I do not believe that you and I are much different from one another, only when it comes to being opened minded and not blinded by by others opinions or fears. I was not brought up liberal, and frankly I do not view myself as one. I was however brought up to give people a chance and in my position in the hiring and firing of perhaps thousands of employees for three rather large and diverse companies over the course of my job history. I guess being in that position I've seen what a prejudice can do to a person, having personally experienced that at a young age I am more in tune with it in my HR job and as such, more in tune with living my life with those same values as I was taught from a young age. If you cannot fathom such opened minded values, then your life must be a barron wasteland as you look at it with horse blinders on as to narrow your perception of what is and what is not right in the your world.
Enjoy your Muslim pediatrician. I wonder how you will feel if something bad happens to your children as a result of this doctor. Will you feel like a dope, or will you just say that it was a part of a very rich life experience as a by-product of your open mindedness? Personally, I prefer the baron and boring lifestyle for myself. I avoid people who can cause me potential harm. In short, I am discriminating in my choice of human associations, and I try to keep troublemakers out of my life. I lead such a boring and uneventful life, thank G-d!
So you do not buy gasoline, stop at a 7-11, or grab a cup of coffee at a dunkin donuts, you do not take your car to the local Midas, you do not shop at all in Shoprite or Acme, or spend any time at Sears, Macys, or Target. You must not also do any shopping in the Quick Check, dry cleaners, or home depo, I guess you do not stop in at the local Post office in Rockaway, Denville, Dover, or Parsippany all because there are Muslims working in those places. You are right, you lead a very discriminating, narrow minded, and extremely boring life. I now see why you spend all of your valuable time on the web so that you do not have to interact with anyone that does not fit your view of the perfect race or religion.
That was a pretty specious argument. I do not take unnecessary risks with my life or with the ones that I love. Apparantly, not only are you callous with regard to the well bing of your children (willing to risk their lives) but you are quite ignorant to boot.
Again, why would you subject your kids to the potential risks that I highlighted for you when there are plenty of sane and safe alternatives in the area of Pediatric medicine? Stop evading that question. Amplifying, I am glad that my parents were both intilligent and discriminating in their social interactions. In the meantime, enjoy your relationships with those that desire to kill you as a fundamental thesis outlined in their Quaran. And lastly, thank G-d you were not one of my parents.
Rat
ps - You may not know it, but part of my family was subjected to the effects of Hitlers regime. As a by-product of that, I would never choose to live in Germany. I have some direct idea what that stuff is all about, so back off bud. This Islamic crap runs directly parallel to that sick component of world history.
So then you do stop at the Dunkin Donuts, and you do shop at the Shoprite or the Acme, why put yourself at risk by doing so since Muslims openly work in those establishments. Do you not think that they could poison your food supplies if they so wanted? What about adding an explosive device to your car while they fill your gas tank? Perhaps sprinkle toxic chemicals on your clothing while you are shopping. Frankly I'm amazed that you step out of your house at all. By your own admission you choose to discriminate against those who do not follow your race or religion and you shun others because they do not share your beliefs. It is this narrow mindedness that you are now passing down to your children (if you have any), it is this inbred hatred and intolerance that caused Hitler to become the person that he was. His parents did not think so when they were raising him, but that was the indirect byproduct of being as narrow minded as you appear to be with your writings here on this forum. Now of course you might feel anger because I brought up Hitler and had the nerve to compare him to you, but take a step back and ask anyone else who is reading this whether I hit the nail on the head or not with this analogy. You feel above it all, but you and your narrow minded bigotry and at the root of the problem. You are akin to the radical terrorists who want to see all Americans die because we do not believe in the ways of Muslim religion or are not of the same race. Before you respond, all I ask is that you think about this last set of lines as that is the real bottom line for you, just the flip side of the extremists movement.
I am concerned with all that stuff - - - the Dunkin donuts, the gas station and so forth. Something real bad is ultimately going to happen here in this country and then people may wake up. Maybe a little suitcase nuke detonated in lower Manhattan by Muslims will get your attention. The key power brokers of the Islamic religion have declared war on the west and only the foolish few would deny that truth. They say to kill all the Christians and Jews. I say, get the hell out of my country.
If I had my way, they would all be sent back to their Islamic countries where they can kill each other to their hearts content under Sharia (Islamic) law. There is no reason for them to come to a Judeo - Christian country and then ask us to embrace their expressed beliefs (which is to destroy us Christians and Jews) in order to satiate to their religious needs. I have no use for the lot of them. As Anne Coulter has said, force them to convert to Christianity or tell them to get the hell out of the country! I sympathize with that sentiment. Now, go take some more unnecessary risks with your kids, bud. What a pity for those poor kids.
Those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Remember Neville Chamberlains attempt to placate Hitler? Did not work, did it? After Churchill took charge and engaged the enemy, do you think that he would have invited the German enemy to live amongst them during the battle of Britan? So, why when we are in a World War are we allowing the enemy to congregate amongst us?
As Anne Coulter has said, force them to convert to Christianity or tell them to get the hell out of the country! I sympathize with that sentiment. Rat
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See, now we are getting to the heart of the problem, you as a christian religious zealot believe the crap posted by the likes of Anne Coulter. What she is saying and what you are condoning is that if you are not a Christian you need to either convert or get out of "your country". Well let me tell you, long before it was "your country" it was the country of the native Americans. Maybe if they told all of the Christians that they must convert to the native Americans religious beliefs or leave their lands we would not be having this conversation. Tough to argue with the logic when all I am doing is substituting one group for the other in your much quoted text. I might add that Anne Coulter has a dim view on the Jewish faith and would prefer to see all of them to convert to Christianity as well. Once again I'll bring you back to reality by stating that before their was a Christian faith, Jesus himself was a Jew. Try to twist that one all you like, but while your doing so, try not to wrap yourself in an American flag, as you disgrace it with your bigotry and hatred.
What Anne Coulter is saying is a parody of the Islamic principle of conversion or die at the end of sword. But, you are too stupid to get it.
Most people like yourself are just not willing to face the reality that this is not a WAR ON TERROR. Our pols have done all of us a dis-service by calling it that. This is a HOLY WAR started by the leaders of Islam against the West. Again, we are dealing with a HOLY WAR between Islam and the West and the princilples involved by those different perspectives. The war was not started by the West; it was started by leaders of that very ugly and totally interlorent religion.
This war will not be resolved by negotiation. It will be won by one side or the other by force. I do not know which side will win, but I do know that it will take roughly 100 years to resolve. Disputes like this concerning domination are always resolved ultimately by the display of overwhelming force. And your example of the Indians is a bad one since they did not have the slightest prayer of overwhelming the new occupiers of this land that we live on. And all land that people live on was conquered at some point in history. If you do not like that fact, stop being a hipocrite and donate your home and property back to some Indian tribe.
Anyone who does not realize what I just said to be true is living in a fantasy world, IMHO.
ps - I love Anne Coulter. While I do not always agree with what she says, the way in which she expresses herself if very refreshing. She is a straight shooter, pulls no punches and minces no words. That is wonderful and refreshing!
As for your description of my hate for Christianity, you have it wrong. I will outline my religious likes and dislike here for you, just to make it real clear how I think:
I like the following religions:
Orthodox Judaism Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy Russian Orthodoxy Most highly Organized Protestant sects The Hindu Religion The Budahist Religion and a few others
I dislike the following religions:
Cults like Ireland Pretend church Non-Demonational Religions (another word for Cults) Islam (An agent for world domination by a few Emans - - - Junk Religion) Scientology (Just another cult) and a few others
Why only Orthodox Judaism, why not conservative Judaism or reformed Judaism? Seems to be you yourself are on the fringe of your religion, having to create a secular difference between one level of Judaism or Christianity and another. Doesn't god teach you to love all your neighbors? Doesn't god love you for who you are as I know he loves me for who I am? Or, do you use your religion as your filter for what is and what is not correct in the world? Would you force feed your religious beliefs on everyone else just so that you can make yourself feel superior? isn't this what the different religious factions overseas are doing right now with their holy war? Seems to me your way of thinking is far more on the same level as these fanatics in Iraq, only difference is that you have the right to express those views and do not resort to bombing those around you who do not agree with your beliefs. Other than that, I view you both the same way, with disgust for your narrow views and intolerance of the rest of the world population.
A third category of religions are those that I am ambivilent about and Reform and Conservative Judaism fall into the category. They are benign.
As for forcing my religion on you or others, I could care less if anyone cares to join my religion. As a matter of fact, conversions in Judaism are discouraged.
You go on and espouse tolerance, love and peace and negotiation. I will go on and espouse that the Holy War issue will be resolved only by strength by the winning side and never by negotiation and tolerance.
That is all that I have to say on this thread. Heretofore, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
So then what you are saying is that only the Orthodox Jew is a real Jew? Does the rabbi of the Chabad teach you such things or is this your own interpretation of the talmud?
As far as using moslem physicians, I believe that they are probably safe to use. On the other hand, with so many competent non-moslem physicians around, does it make sense to take the additional risk? I don't think so.
As far as using moslem physicians, I believe that they are probably safe to use. On the other hand, with so many competent non-moslem physicians around, does it make sense to take the additional risk? I don't think so.
Ours is just one in a rolling group of 8 pediatricians. Do I feel the least bit uncomfortable when we get her during her rotation, no, not really. I guess I'm less phobic about these things than others, why, because I went to college in NYC and had a melting pot in each of my classes. So basing anything on race or religion and having a bias for either or just never came in to play. Although at the same time, growing up where I was discriminated against because I am Jewish and the school system was primarily not might also have something to do with it. Those of us old enough to remember this discrimination as a school age child turn out to be far more tolerant of others as adults. Of course in some case, that does not seem to be the case.
As long as you feel comfortable with it that's fine. You're the one that's taking the risk that is perceived by others but not by you. I just don't feel comfortable with the whole holy war thing and I'm not going to risk my life and health if there's no need to do so. I think I'm about as tolerant as the next guy but I just can't see voluntarily upping the risk factor. Enjoy your moslem doctor. I'm sure you'll be fine.
I have been busy and have not checked in here in a while. I have a few comments on the "conversation" above.
First of all the plans for Rockaway Boro for the use of a warehouse for the purpose of renovation into a house of worship makes far more sense then the CC plan made for 140 GP Rd. As for the kind of house of worship, they have every right to be there.
As for the comments about doctors, you must use the same amount of care when picking a doctor that you would in finding a partner in life, this person may will likely save your life and you want it to be someone that you can communicate with and respect. No person should judge someones elses choice. The arguments above are about all the docs planning to kill all patients are just plain stupid.
As for which religions are OK by Rat - FYI "Most highly Organized Protestant sects" was included in your list did you stop to think who belonged to one of these groups... Hitler... So I was wondering if Lutherns were still OK by you?
It will be intersting to see how Rockaway Boro handles this land use issue, time will tell...
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Hitlers Third Reich was not tied directly into the Lutheran church. Better go read your history, Lisa. Besides, Hitler was half Jewish and half Roman Catholic by virtue of his upbringing and heritage. That last statement makes me choke, but that is the fact of the matter.
As disgusting and difficult as it was to read (particularly as a Jew), I have read Mein Kamf. That work is completely out of context with respect to the writings of Martin Luther. In short, only Adolf Hitler can be blamed for what Adolf Hitler wrote and concluded in that piece of trash. You can not say "but the devil made him do it and that devil was Martin Luther".
As for religion not being a birth rite, but a choice, tell 6 Million Jews that. Judaism is both a religion and an ancestry, unlike other "religions". Better go do some more reading, Lisa.
Rat yet again you only see what you want to see and fail to take the time to stop and think. First Hitler is to blame for his own actions but research would show you that his writting was based in large part on the later writtings of Marin Luther, whom he was a follower of. My comment about birth right was simply ment to explain that people do not always follow the belief system they were born into and as they age they can and do in fact change religions. Hitlter was a Lutheran a fact that I as a Lutheran am not happy about. The early and late writings of Luther were vastly different, the religion was based on his early writtings and Hitlers attraction to him seems to be related to his later writtings. If he had followed the beliefs he was born into the world would be a completely different place today, but free will and choice led him elsewhere, sad but true.
When you paint a picture with a wide brush you miss the details thus the content. Your views toward religions you do not personally believe in is disturbing. I have stated from the onset that my oppostition to the CC matter had nothing to do with how they pray, I say the same for the mosque in the boro. As a country I agree we need to change the laws governing all religion and hold them accountable for reporting financial records, much like the do in the UK. But your views on which religions are OK and which are not say nothing about the zelots in all camps that would do harm to their fellow man.
Try to have a nice day. Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
"Your views toward religions you do not personally believe in is disturbing."
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My views on religions are very reasonable, just not PC. I divide them into three groups:
1. Good Religions
2. Trash Religions
3. Religions that I am ambivilant about
I outlined which are which in another post. I will not repeat that; you cand find it if you have interest.
As with any human endeavour, there are clearly good, bad and indifferent situations that occur and religion is not exempt from that. And there is no law of human conduct that says that I must respect or tolerate a religion that includes in its canon the concept of killing all the Christians and Jews on the planet unless they convert to said religion. Of course, a religion can change its canon, but the one that comes to mind has not done that.
So, my discerning position on different religions are a perfectly reasonable position to take. As for Irelands so called religion, it is predatory on the feeble minded and I find that to be very immoral. I am certain that Ireland church is not what Jesus Christ had in mind when he preached his Gospel. And, yes, I have read the Brit Chadessah (New Testament), so lets not go there.
