Every way I look at this is, it seems to be a question of how deeply does Trenton buy into the Highlands Bill and McGreevys vision. or was it simply McGreevy's force behind it (pardon the pun).
My first impression is that if CC is truly the first "test" of the Bill in front of The DEP, one can only hope they don't want to start a bad precedent by exempting it. This could ruin the Bill from the get go. If McGreevy never really had Trenton supporting it, they may use this as a chance to gut it.
This application to exempt is a true "trial by fire"for the DEP, and I hope they realize the implications to the Bill itself if they crumble at its first test.
The DEP decision on this will likely be driven by the political correctness of reacting properly to a minority church and have little to do with the directive.
Well, I don't think I could possibly DISAGREE with you any more fervently. Firstly, most of the decision makers are Democrats. CC is predominantly Christian Conservatives ie: Neo-Conservatives. Using your opinion, the "PC" thing to do would be to stick it to the Right Wingers.
Do you know any of the decision makers, do you know their party affiliations? Can you name one member of NJDEP? Can you cite any past decisions regarding land use for religious institutions? Please list them........
The only backlash I forsee is from those politicians that lost big campaign money from developers, and builders who lost out on the Highlands Bill. And, this is a way to fill the wallet again.
How you equated this to race and or religion is beyond me.
The DEP commissioner is a guy named Bradley Campbell. He is very "green" in the sense that he generally does not cave into special interests when it comes to his decision process. However, the reality in this country as far as I can see is that preferential treatment is always afforded to minorities. Just look at the whole body of law called Affirmitive Action. It has been upheld by the Supreme Court and is blatent reverse discrimination. Yes, race is an element of this and our politicians are scared s-h=itless because of that aspect of things.
But, I hope that you are right and that I am wrong.
Why do people have to make this a race, religion issue? CC is too big for the area. It's that simple. Read what happened in E. Hanover. They rejected the rezoning of land for a supermarket and condo's because the citizens said it would cause too much traffic at an already bad traffic area. They won. Why is RT's reaction to CC any different than E. Hanover? A supermarket would benefit the community, but they still didn't want it because of the impact it would have in the community. CC would not benefit RT and would cause to much destruction to our environment, our traffic, our community as a whole. Isn't this the same as E. Hanover? We are trying to save our community because it may become too unbearable to live in if CC gets in. Look at the figures in the Daily Rag today about traffic.
Also, if the light is placed at the entrance on GPR for CC, what will that do to people trying to get out of Meridan? GPR would be backed up north so Meridan cars will not be able to get unto GPR. Also, coming from the north on GPR there's blind spots coming around the curves and coming down the hill at Metro. Certainly sounds like plenty of accidents waiting to happen. This is not based on race or religion, it's based on GPR being too narrow, winding, and hilly for 1700 hundred more cars.
This is not analogous to the East Hanover situation. This is about a Church which has special protections under the law as spelled out in RLUIPA. Yeah it sucks, but that is a reality. It is also a minority church which has special protections under the reverse discrimination laws in this country. Yeah, that sucks too, but it is a reality. And we have to deal with it in consideration of these realities. Otherwise, we are sticking our heads in a hole in the ground and will loose this battle. You see, we are all equal, but some are much more equal than the rest of us. This is not a level playing field that we are playing on here.
This problem needs to be solved with some real tough medicine. Condem the land while we still can.
I could not agree more with your post Thinker. See todays Record. Rational I do not think your train of thought is the focus of this matter. The magnitude of the project is the problem and that is what this matter is ALL about.
In addition I can not help but wonder with all of the massive changes to this plan where is the all the money going to come from for these very expensive items. Traffic lights are about $200K the water filters ("down stream defenders" are very expensive and NOT currently approved by the DEP mind you!) AN UNDERGROUD (face it CC when you move earth away it is UNDER GROUND not under building) with the footings needed to secure it in wetlands with NO bed rock to support it we are talking money in the millions JUST for that.
I really hope the good people of Christ Church do their homework and find out where their hard earned dollars are going. MANY other sites would be better suited to this type of use and they may actually find communities happy to see them purchase such properties (Greystone - Hurcules or others).
Time will tell....until then we will keep up the fight.
Lisa
-- Edited by Lisa Salberg at 06:28, 2004-09-15
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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Since Churches are exempt from the Highlands directive, please consider the following scenario. Assume that the commission hearing this case turns it down Irelands request for exemption from the law (an unlikely scenario). What is to stop Ireland from re-submitting his plan with something that meets all of the requirements? Perhaps his new submission will be for an 800 person church on 100,00 square feet. That would definitely have to be approved by the township. Then, he would build that church. Thereafter, he would grow explosively. Next, he would build his complete 412,000 square foot monstrosity to accomodate his 20,000 person flock. Guess what? His church, which will at that point in time already exist on that site, will automatically be exempt from the Highlands requirement. He wins and we loose.
Whoa, slow down. CHURCHES ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE HIGHLANDS REGULATIONS. CC has applied for exemption based on the fact that they say they arent adding any addnl. impervious cover to an existing site. The same would apply to any company that wants to move in there. That can be a basis for exemption, IF its true. They cannot add more than a quarter of an acre of addnl IS. Where it gets sticky is how the cover is calculated, and even if found to be exempt, whether it exempts them from all of the regs under the bill or only some. Although I dont think they will get it, if they do, I believe they would still be bound by the size limits as long as the law is on the books, so they couldnt expand at that site, except maybe going up. However, once there, they would have a much better RLUIPA case for doing anything that the town objected to.
Maybe I have it wrong, but it is my understanding that existing churches are exempted from the Highlands directives. So, all this man has to do is become an existing church. Thereafter, that means that it will become a simple two-step process for him. At the risk of being redundant, just condem the land on the grounds that it interferes with the towns ecology and let the court fight begin.
A long time ago a wise person told, if at all possible, to never leave your fate up to someone else's discretion. Perhaps CC will get their exemption, perhaps not. Personally, I'm not crazy about the way that section of the law reads.
Can a case be made that a school plus board of education and/ or other administrative offices would be a good use of that site? I believe that the previous analysis only considered the school alone. I would hate for the town to miss the opportunity to improve its educational system, provide for administrative facilities, and protect both the town's water supply and the general environment all at once. Let's reconsider eminent domain. Any thoughts?
Obviously, I am with you. I completely agree that we should take another look at the best use for that land which is in the townships best interest. Your ideas are good as far as I am concerned. Maybe there are some other good ideas out there.
Another use for the land, besides the school, could be the municipal building and the police headquarters. We could also move the Hibernia library annex to this site. We could move all of these functions to that site which is ample in size to accomodate the same along with the new school. It would provide the town with a more centrally located town hall with larger facilities and a better facility for our police department. We could then sell the present municipal building as an office building to some private enterprise. Ironically, we could sell the Hibernia annex library to a small Church which is what the building originally accomodated.
Let me suggest it be viewed from a different position. The Highland law states that ANY LAND for sale in the highlands core area of 10 acres or more needs to be submitted to the State for right of 1st refusal.
As of today Agilent has not complied with this portion of the law. The state will have 30 days once placed on notice to choose to purchase the land. If they do not want the land (for market price) the land may be sold to any buyer.
How does CC think they can get an exemption when the owner of the property has not yet complied with the law?
Maybe the state would like to land to house the Highlands Commision - what better place then Rockaway Twp the heart of the Highlands! Hey you never know.
Keep the faith!
Happy Rosh Hashanah to those who celebrate!!
Lisa
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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Are we prepared to encourage the state or township to accept that right? I sure hope so since I am very leary of the Highlands law and its effect on this application.
Anyway, L'shanah Tova to my Jewish friends here in town. Can you believe that it is 5765 already? My, has time flown!
Frankly it is unclear as to who will make the choice to purchase land - the commision has not been staffed as of yet.
At this point the one thing I am sure of is that Agilent has not complied with the law. The land is not sold - according to the Highlands bill they are to submit notice AND a copy of any contract for proposed sale - the contract can not be completed and deed transfered until the law is complied with.
Time will tell.
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
In my opinion, the town should be more proactive rather than letting others decide their fate. I hope the states does buy the property but that is not in our control nor is it assured or even likely. Let's take control of the situation to the extent that we can while we still have the opportunity to do that.
09/16/04 - Posted from the Daily Record newsroom Christ Church exemption request may get ruling soon
By Rob Jennings, Daily Record
Christ Church of Montclair is not the only prospective developer seeking an exemption from the new Highlands law.
A total of 22 exemption applications had been filed with the state Department of Environmental Protection through Wednesday, DEP spokesman Erin Phalon said.
Christ Church, whose "mega-church" building plan in Rockaway Township has generated steep local resistance, filed its request on Aug. 25 -- two weeks and a day after Gov. James E. McGreevey signed legislation that sharply curtails development in a 395,000-acre preservation area.
Lawmakers included in the Highlands law more than a dozen circumstances under which exemptions to strict new requirements, such as 300-foot development buffers around water bodies, would be granted.
The exemptions were an attempt to balance the law's stated aim -- protecting drinking water used by more than four million people -- with the rights of property owners.
Christ Church, which scaled back its building plan in response to the new law, is arguing for an exemption on the grounds that its proposal is within 125 percent of the footprint of existing impervious surfaces at the 107-acre, former Agilent Technologies site on Green Pond Road.
Christ Church's proposal, including a 2,512-seat sanctuary, private K-5 school and other facilities, would cover approximately 287,000 square feet. The existing Agilent building at the site is 283,000 square feet.
Phalon said it would take approximately 30 days to review Christ Church's request, raising the possibility that a decision will be reached prior to the ninth planning board hearing on the church's application, to be held Oct. 4.
Phalon said requests for exemptions are reviewed by DEP's watershed management and land use regulations programs. She did not immediately know whether any exemptions already had been granted or the identities of other applicants.
Meanwhile, a prominent environmental activist charged Wednesday that the influx of applicants signaled a flaw in the Highlands law.
New Jersey Sierra Club director Jeff Tittel believes all pending developments in the Highlands should be frozen until the DEP formalizes new regulations and a state regional planning council is appointed to oversee proposals.
"They're all going to be builders trying to get their projects exempted," said Tittel, adding that exemptions likely will be granted to some of the very projects that the law was designed to prevent.
The entire Highlands region consists of approximately 800,000 acres in Morris, Sussex and five other counties.
Christ Church signed a $14 million contract with Agilent more than a year ago. An eighth planning board hearing was held Monday night, after a three-month delay called to assess the impact of the Highlands law.
Christ Church's attorney, Wendy Berger, asked the board to proceed under the assumption that a Highlands exemption would be granted, but board chairman Morton Dicker declined her request.
So does Rockaway Township have any say in the review process, or does the review committee base its decision on one sided information from the applicant without hearing counter-arguments?
Seems like a part of the Constitution is being violated here...............
Looking over the DEP website and all the Highlands info online, I dont see any provision for "objectors" to register their complaints, however, I intend to make some calls tomorrow. At very least I intend to write, as a concerned taxpayer and resident, to them stating my objections to the application for exemption. It looks like the address to use is:
From the NJ DEP perspective, I suspect that it is irrelevent what a local township may think on any particular Highlands matter. This is a state law and Irelands request for exemption will probably be adjudicated by a board who is only set up to compare this law with the applicants request. I think that we, as citizens of RT, are "out of the loop." I hope that I am wrong. I think that our fate is in the hands of outsiders - - - Ireland and the DEP review board.
Ultimately, no matter how the board rules, Ireland will get around the law. As I have pointed out earlier, even in the very unlikely case wherein the board turns down Irelands folly, he will simply scale back his church so that it meets all of the requirements and we will be forced to approve it. He could propose an 800 person theater on 100,000 square feet. There is no way that would not meet the standards. Thereafter, it will become an established church, his flock will explode, and he will build his 412,000 square foot monstrosity. There will be no review at that point because the law exempts existing churches from the Highlands law. It is a huge loophole in the law and I am sure that Ireland and his legal team are aware of it. Unless WE do something, get used to seeing Christ Church and its skyscraping towers on GPR.
Lets take this issue into our own hands. Condem the property Now!