Megachurch article - The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Megachurch article

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

During close games at Houston's Compaq Center, basketball and hockey fans did their share of praying. Next spring, the stadium will hear some serious hallelujahs. That and this report special to The Los Angeles Times by Dana Calvo

After a 14-month, $75-million renovation, the Compaq Center will reopen as Lakewood Church, the nation's largest house of worship.

With 16,000 seats, two waterfalls and an interior camera ready for Sunday broadcasts, the reborn structure dovetails national trends that promise to shake up the economics of urban real estate: the increasing number of obsolete sports stadiums and the meteoric growth of huge religious congregations that need "megachurches."

Requiring arena-sized seating and vast parking lots, these churches are expensive to build and demand large plots of land that are difficult to come by in urban areas. That has made rejected sports arenas, faced with demolition, fertile ground for religious conversion.

It may be a commercial real estate boomlet in its infancy. Besides the Compaq Center, only the Forum in Inglewood has made the jump, now drawing about 6,000 on Sundays as the Faithful Central Bible Church. (The church moved in before all the Forum's event contracts had been fulfilled, so in the early days worshipers shared space with the Women of Wrestling league.)

But interest appears to be growing. Joel Osteen, the 41-year-old pastor of Lakewood Church, said half a dozen pastors from around the country had asked him how he went about signing the 30-year, $12.3-million lease on the Compaq Center.

Church leaders, he said, realize they have to be inventive these days.

"You have to change with the times," he said. "If Jesus were here he'd change with the times. He couldn't ride around on a donkey. He'd drive a car."

In the last 10 years, 20 arenas have been built to replace National Basketball Assn. teams' aging homes, according to the league, and some of the old stadiums are vacant or underused.

As the new generation of sports facilities has sprung up, the megachurch — defined as any with more than 2,000 worshippers — has flourished.

In 1970, there were 10 megachurches in the U.S. Today there are an estimated 850 non-Catholic megachurches, with four of the six largest in Texas, said John Vaughan, director of Church Growth Today, a think tank in Bolivar, Mo., that publishes an annual listing of the world's largest and fastest-growing churches. He said the survey didn't include Roman Catholic parishes because there weren't enough Catholic data.

For years, the Houston Rockets called Compaq Center home, and the team paid $100,000 a year in management fees to the city. But team leaders were itching for a building that had a separate practice area, a restaurant, more luxury suites, ample parking and nicer locker rooms. That and this report special to The Los Angeles Times by Dana Calvo

In 1997, voters approved a 2% hotel tax and 5% car rental tax to be used for sports complexes, spawning the glitzy Toyota Center. The $235-million downtown facility, which also houses the Houston Aeros minor league hockey team and the Houston Comets of the Women's National Basketball Assn., opened in October with an inaugural concert by Fleetwood Mac.

"We doubled the rent we received," said Dawn Ullrich, Houston's director of convention and entertainment facilities. "We put $20 million to purchase the land and prepare the site for construction. In exchange for that we have $200,000 a year in naming rights payments, a suite and 20 dates a year we can use for nonprofit events."

In the last four years, Houston voters have approved two other facilities, and the city of Houston and surrounding Harris County have reaped the rewards from Minute Maid Park and Reliant Stadium.

"We can now host certain events we would not have been able to host before, like the Super Bowl," said Oliver Luck, chief executive of the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority. This month "we're hosting the baseball All-Star game at Minute Maid Park. We're doing the NCAA Final Four at Reliant in 2011. Hotels fill up. People spend money."

Lakewood Church won't be the economic engine for the area that the old stadium was, but the county is getting something out of it: $12.3 million upfront for the lease, according to Lakewood spokesman Don Iloff.

For Lakewood, the move to the old Compaq Center next April (just in time for Easter services) will give it celestial bragging rights of sorts.

Already the fastest-growing congregation in the country with more than 30,000 members, Lakewood in its new home will eclipse the 27,000-member Crenshaw Christian Center of Los Angeles as the biggest church in the nation — 16,000 seats versus 10,000 or so at Crenshaw Christian Center's landmark FaithDome.

The Rockets' old locker room is becoming a nursery. A swath of stadium seating has been torn out to make room for the waterfalls that will bookend the 200-person choir. And a state-of-the-art hydraulic stage is being built for the choir and the nine-person band, which features an electric guitar but no organ.

Osteen tends to his global flock with broadcasts on ABC Family, Pax TV and BET, reaching more than two dozen of the largest television markets in the country, as well as far-flung spots that include Estonia and Cyprus.

The Compaq Center's 20 luxury suites have been turned into electrical rooms from which Lakewood's 25-person production team will operate lighting, curtains and cameras. It is, Osteen admits, a service conceived to lure and retain a generation of worshippers who want their Bible-based inspiration served up in an entertaining package.

There are some sports venues that have been discarded by pro teams but have yet to be made over as megachurches. Houston's multipurpose Astrodome, for example, sits vacant.

"It's a 60,000-seat building that's very sound," Luck said, "but I don't know if there's a church that needs that much space."

Lakewood's Osteen isn't so sure. "I think there could be a day when we see 75,000 [congregants] instead of 25,000," he said. "I think there's that potential." That and this report special to The Los Angeles Times by Dana Calvo

BR · Status: Offline

Check out Lakewood Church's website. I looked it up a few weeks ago when I saw this fake on TV.

http://www.joelosteen.com/index.htm

I especially like the little pop-up ad. "Coming soon to a city near you". Ireland would love to see his name in lights like this. I'm sorry but no one convince me that this isn't all about the money. Is this a religious service or just a show for profit? Sad how people fall for this.

BR · Status: Offline

Don't be fooled by only 5000 members and no projection for growth. This (Taken from Olsteen's web site) is the new business model for a megaprofit-megachurch:

How do you become a member of Lakewood Church?

Lakewood Church does not have a formal membership process. If you are a regular attendee, then you are considered a member.

People come from miles to see the shows. Kind of a pay as you go concept. No long term obligation. Once you are in, it's just like a theartre or sports arena.....more revenue from food concesions, books, tapes, etc. The ojective is to get as many people through those doors as possible, not to save souls, but to generate revenue. The best part is, there are no taxes paid on profits.

Rational · Status: Offline

Notice a common denemonator here folks? Agilent/HP is trying to sell to Christ Church. Do you know who owns Compaq? You have it right if you said HP.

Looks like HP like investing in the Megachurch business.

THINKER · Status: Offline

So if CC gets approved, but can't build more than what's there or increase the parking, then what's the use for Ireland? He won't be able to expand and isn't that what this is all about? Who has the biggest megachurch, most members and raking in the most money?

Rational · Status: Offline

Once he is in, what is to stop him from growing? If he grows, what is to stop him from building? Do you think some stupid little state Highlands bill is going to stand up against the Federal law called RLUIPA when he puts forth his expansion plans to the town? I think not.

karen · Status: Offline

...and if they can't expand the facility, there's nothing to stop them from having 5 services a day like they do now.

He'd just have to delegate some of the preaching duties, since 5 services a day has taken a toll on his body, as he says.

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

One thing to remember is that before CC takes title, the town has the agilent tax revenues of $630,000 annually to defray legal costs of opposing the CC application. Once CC takes title, even under a scaled down version, it can later try to expand and the town would no longer have those agilent revenues to cover costs of litigation. CC knows this and we better realize it too. The time to do whatever can be done to stop this thing is now, not later.

In my opinion, a foot in the door for CC on this is a foot in the grave for RT.

Rational · Status: Offline

You've got it!

karen · Status: Offline

Amen...and God forbid.

THINKER · Status: Offline

So what do we do? How do we get the town to use this money? We haven't heard a word from our elected officials on any of this and they don't seem to be listening to us.

Rational · Status: Offline

My opinion:

1. Dimin is in way over his head. Fire him and hire a real land use attorney who knows what the hell he is doing and knows how to "street fight."

2. Fire the Town Planner. He is not pro-active and needs to pay for his mistake in not properly advising us in areas in which we hired him for his expertise.

3. Change the Zoning Laws now.

4. Call for Referendum on this issue and find out what the "people" who will have to tolerate and pay for all this nonsense.

5. Demand a re-call election for all of those politicians on the Board including the Mayor. Time to put tough guys in these positions instead of a bunch of passive nice guys.

THINKER · Status: Offline

Rational if you'd like to run, you got my vote. I agree 100% with you. I haven't seen anyone, but the people, try and do something about what could ruin RT as it is now. Our leaders are like mats, they're getting walked all over. Even VORTS planner made more sense than those representing us!

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

I have to say I do not agree with your impression of our town officials. I have been attending town council meetings and maintained contact with my councilmen. They are more than on top of this situation. This is not a street fight or matter that can be dealt with by non binding referendum. The town has hired the BEST legal mind in the area of RLUIPA - Marci Hamilton.

Our council is commited to protect our town, our water, our finacial situation, minimizing traffic and maintaing a wonderful environment for all residents.

It is easy to sit back and play Monday morning quaterback - navigating though this Mega-matter is a complicated matter which is being delt with in a legal, honorable and ethical manner.

THINKER · Status: Offline

Sorry, but our town council has not given us one iota of encouragement or support. They don't seem much prepared at the meetings. Marci told me to let our town officials know how we feel and to keep on top of them. We have been doing that. Seems like some of the residents are more informed than the council members. I understand that this is a sticky situation for them, but someone should come out on the township's side and show us some support. We are not mind readers. We don't know what's going on except for what we see. And it's not pretty.

Rational · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: Lisa Salberg
It is easy to sit back and play Monday morning quaterback - navigating though this Mega-matter is a complicated matter which is being delt with in a legal, honorable and ethical manner. "

The only thing ultimately important to us is this:

It must be dealt with in an Effective way. The other stuff is secondary to the RESULTS.

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

It is highly Effective to be legal, honorable and ethical. Being anything BUT legal, honorable and eithical would be highly ineffictive.

The fast tract bill was signed yesterday - the Highlands Bill is next. FYI I spoke to the Gov's office about 2 weeks ago and asked when the highlands was going to be signed. I was told the budget needed everyones attention at that time and should expect to hear something after the 4th of July weekend. Within 4 days of the 4th the fast track bill was signed - the highlands can not be far behind.

Stay on the high road and we will win.

Rational · Status: Offline

Don't kid yourself that the high road will win. The only thing that is "Effective" is for us to win. I personally could not care less how it is accomplished as long as it is accomplished. The hell with the legal system. It is completely against us. It is in complete biased favor towards the following:

1. Racial Minorities

2. Churches

It has no proclivities or bias in our direction. Actually, the reality of the situation is quite the opposite. It is the reverse (discrimination in the reverse in this country is not only legal but approved in several cases that have been before the supreme court. So, wake up.)

We need people to run this fight who are:

1. Street Fighters

2. Know how to establish back room deals

3. Know how to fight fire with fire (ie. know how to hire the best Madison Avenue PR folks and know how to hire the best land use attorneys in the state (ie. Henry Hill or equivelent)).

4. Know how to fire incompetitent people.

5. Know how to get this into a non-binding referendum so that we can at least show the world that 99.99 percent of us do not want this and do not feel that it benefits this town. That would make it real clear to our "very nice" politicians exactly how we (the people who will have to pay for this church) feel about things.

Else -

Ireland, who is a street fighter is going to kill this place with his unethical tactics.

But, at least if the good Reverend does ultimately win (the high probability situation here for the betting folks in town), you can feel good about the fact that YOU did the ethical thing. Just great! Some consolation.

Mark B · Status: Offline

I gotta agree with rational.

Sorry, but we need to take no risk here. The nice guy usually ends up loosing the girl in real life...she marries the schmuck, then gets a divorce later, and the both learn thier lessons the hard way.

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

I will not address each of your issues on a message board, as this is not a wise place to "show your hand". But you need to understand that many people have been working very hard and with very VERY important people who can,are and will help us. These types of discussions are ethical and legal - but not in our best interest to discuss on a message board.

If you have any specific questions call a memeber of Voices of Rockaway Twp to discuss this further.

Ethical, Legal and Honorable does not mean that one can not be 'statigic', crafty, strong and committed. Do not mistake Ethical, Legal and Honorable for "nice". Being a human resourse manager for 16 years makes me VERY comfortable with 'terminating" those who are not up to a task.

We have a great team - we have the best team we could have. We have nationally recognized specialists, committed residents and the power of many other cases around the country on our side.

I have been in contact with people facing similar issues from Chicago, Southern CA, Northern CA, NC, and Hawaii. We have gained great insight from there efforts. Did you know that a case in northern CA is poised to hit the Supreme Court? The town has been successful in stopping a project claiming RLUIPA protection, the only place the applicant has to go now is the Supreme Court -it has not choosen yet if it will attempt to bring the case up. Also the town has spent $200,000 since 2000-1 fighting this application. Much of the work done is a matter of public record, which means there is a cost savings in research to anyone wanting to get copies of the briefs already filed in a successful defeat of this type of an application.

Again if you have any questions just give us a call. ALSO please do call your council people and let them know your feelings.

Have a nice Sunday.

Lisa

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Posted on Sat, Jul. 24, 2004

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Ministry resurrects cars

Churches offer low-cost mechanic services to single parents, elderly and poor

By Kristen Gelineau

Associated Press

BOTHELL, Wash. - Slumped over the wheel of a stubborn car that just won't start, many a desperate person has pleaded with God for help.

For mechanics Craig Brandenburg and Teang Ie, praying for automotive miracles is just part of the routine at Cedar Park Assembly of God church, where every weekday the two service a steady stream of cars in their mechanics ministry.

Cedar Park is one of many churches across the nation offering such a service, where single women, the elderly, poor and others can get a hassle-free fix-up for a low price. Some of the ministries even refurbish donated cars and give them away or sell them at a bargain rate.

``For the last five years, this has taken off all over the place,'' said Peter Leschuck, lead mechanic for the cars ministry at Willow Creek Community Church, in South Barrington, Ill. Fifteen years ago, the suburban Chicago megachurch opened its mechanics ministry, believed to be the first in the nation, and now advises others on how to start their own.

Brandenburg's shop looks fairly typical. Cars -- some on lifts, some on the floor with their hoods open -- take up most of the space, and the piercing whine of an air wrench permeates the room. But the shop's wooden cross clock, and its regular shipments from the local Chrysler dealership addressed to ``God,'' remind all of the mechanics' higher purpose.

Every morning before they pop the hood of their first car, Brandenburg and Ie sit in the shop's office and bow their heads to pray. As the two huddled together one recent morning, Ie thanked the Lord for any help he could bestow upon the day's lineup of ailing vehicles.

``I can tell you some great stories about God healing cars,'' Brandenburg said with a chuckle, as he twirled a wrench. ``Sometimes you just pray for a revelation.''

The mechanics ministry at the 5,000-member church charges on a sliding scale, depending on the income and circumstances of the customer. One Saturday a month, the ministry, which has serviced around 2,200 cars since it began four years ago, holds a free fix-up day. The shop also accepts donated cars, which they fix and either sell for a low price or give away.

``It's always nice to be able to help those who are just in need,'' Ie said as he plugged up an oil leak in an aging Dodge Caravan. ``Every one of us has been in that place.''

One of Brandenburg's longtime customers, 73-year-old Kitri Moran, said she would be lost without the ministry. Moran lives alone in a trailer park and must drive six miles to get her water from a local well -- an impossible task if her 1987 Ford Escort breaks down.

``He's an angel in disguise,'' said Moran, who scrapes by on her Social Security checks and occasional housecleaning jobs. ``I cried when I walked out of there because he was so sweet.''

Pam Cornell brought her business to Brandenburg when her mechanic wanted to charge her $200 for what she later discovered was a $10 repair.

``I needed to find a real mechanic that I can trust,'' the 38-year-old single mother said as she handed Brandenburg the keys to her Honda Civic. ``I know he's not gonna purposely tell me something's wrong that's not.''

Cornell's experience mirrors that of many of the single women who attend the divorce recovery ministry at Black Rock Congregational Church, said pastor of adult ministries, Dan McCandless.

The Fairfield, Conn., church started a mechanics ministry two years ago, after noticing that many of the congregation's single mothers were very dependent on their cars.

``If their vehicle went kerflooey, they were sunk,'' said McCandless. ``And they're scared to death to get ripped off.''

Brandenburg says he makes sure that doesn't happen. As he pours antifreeze into Cornell's overheated car, he patiently gives her tips on how to keep it running smoothly. When Cornell asks what she owes him, he waves her off without charging her a cent.

``You get to help people out and do what you like to do,'' he says with a smile. ``It's the best.''

Rockaway10yrs · Status: Offline

Wow, I didn't know churches did stuff like this for people. I wouldn't really have a problem with this type of thing going on in Rockaway. But I don't think Christ Church has a program like this. Maybe they'll start one after they hear abour this. Good article, thanks for posting it.

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Megachurch plans Melwood move
by Tiesha Higgins
Staff Writer

July 29, 2004

Please Enable JavaScriptOne of the county's largest churches has purchased Melwood Mall, leaving the mall's current tenants worried about their future.

The Ark of Safety Christian Church--a 3,500-member church headed by Rev. C. Anthony Muse--purchased the 44,000 square foot mall in May. The church this month announced its plans to make the Marlboro Pike site the church headquarters, with a second location in Fort Washington.

But Melwood Mall tenants--who were not even aware the building was up for sale--are just now finding out about the change in ownership from customers and visitors.

"Some of the people didn't even know it was sold until last week," said Rich Day, owner of Eddie's Pizza Shop. "I have a lot invested in my business and I'm hoping not to lose it." Day and his family purchased the pizza parlor a year ago. They have four more years left on their lease and cannot afford to relocate.

Despite their contract, Day foresees trouble. "[Our business staying here is] not in their plans, as far as I can tell," said Davis, who spotted a drawing of the church's plans in the mall's atrium.

The church plans do include an 1,800-seat sanctuary, an evening Bible college and a banquet facility, according to church officials.

Brandi Calhoun, church administrator for Ark of Safety, said the church administrative functions will move to Melwood Mall in November. Church services will follow suit beginning with the New Year's Eve service.

But none of the mall's half dozen tenants have yet been contacted by Ark of Safety.

Muse and Calhoun did not return calls for comment on how the purchase will affect the mall's current tenants.

Connie Montoya has been running her dry-cleaning and alterations business at Melwood Mall for 12 years. Already assuming she will be asked to leave because she rents month-to-month, Montoya just wants to be told something. "They'll have to give me time to find a new location," she said.

The mall's tenants also include a 125-member church, Redemption Ministries. The congregation is led by pastors Aaron and Denise Harley, and occupies a large, open sanctuary in the back of the mall. Denise Harley said that she does not yet know if her flock will need a new home. But, she said, she has hope.

"The Lord will provide another place," said Denise Harley.