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Post Info TOPIC: Daily Record: Highlands vs Christ Church


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Daily Record: Highlands vs Christ Church


Highlands bill may impact Christ Church building plan

By Rob Jennings, Daily Record

ROCKAWAY TWP. -- The proposed location of Christ Church's controversial building plan is in a 395,000-acre "core area" where development will be strictly limited under the recently approved Highlands bill, officials said on Thursday.

The impact that the Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act will have on Montclair-based Christ Church's proposal to build an 3,000-seat sanctuary, private K-5 school and recreational facilities at the 107-acre former Agilent Technologies site is unclear.

"No one really has a clue as to what's going to happen yet. The bill is simply too new," said state Assemblyman Michael Patrick Carroll, R-Morris Township, who opposed the legislation.

"No one has a clue as to who's going to be on the (Highlands) council, or what its role will be," said Carroll. He was referring to pending regulations and the 15-member state council that will be empowered to review and potentially quash development proposals in the core area.

There was no disputing, though, that the Highlands designation adds another hurdle to Christ Church's building plan, which has encountered sizeable local opposition.

Building plan opponents seized on the core designation as a good sign.

"I'm hoping (the church) will see it as just one more reason why they should start looking elsewhere for a project of this magnitude," said resident Charles Mueller.

Under a $14 million purchase agreement with Christ Church since last summer, Agilent's property on Green Pond Road was not part of the Highlands core in an earlier version of the bill, said Morris County Planning Board director Ray Zabihach.

Mayor Louis Sceusi, who supported the bill, said the omission may have been an oversight, as the Agilent site is home to one of the township's four aquifers. The other three sites, Sceusi said, were included in the core.

The Agilent tract was added as part of a series of legislative revisions, Zabihach said. It took between 20 and 30 pages in the 108-page final bill to spell out the core boundaries, he said. No detailed map was available on Thursday.

When asked why the property might have been included, Zabihach said, "Until we know who did it, and why they did it, we don't know the answer."

The state Legislature approved the Highlands bill, which Gov. James E. McGreevey has promised to sign, on June 10. State Sen. Bob Smith, D-Piscataway, one of the bill's primary sponsors, did not return a phone call on Thursday.

Christ Church's attorney, Wendy Berger, said earlier this week that it didn't make sense to tack onto the Highlands core a property "that's already been developed in an area where you want to make preservation."

Sceusi disagreed, saying, "I don't think there's a need for additional development in our aquifer area."

Sceusi said the Agilent site's inclusion jibed with the bill's stated intent.

"The whole purpose of the Highlands legislation is to protect water," Sceusi said.

"Someday we're going to run out of water. Rockaway has faced water shortages for years," the mayor said.

Sceusi, a Republican who sits on the township planning board, said Christ Church's application had nothing to do with his support for the bill, which was opposed by all but one Republican lawmaker from Morris and Sussex counties.

"I support the governor's actions because they're the right thing to do. I wouldn't care who was there, or who it affects. The issue is we need clean water," Sceusi said.

The Highlands bill's supporters said it was needed to protect drinking water throughout a region encompassing seven counties, including Morris and Sussex.

Local Republicans, though, said the bill lacked both a funding source for proposed land purchases and sufficient protection for property owners in the core.

Township planning board chairman Mort Dicker said the Highlands issue likely will be brought up next week, when the board holds its seventh public hearing on Christ Church's application.

Mueller, the building plan opponent, said the church's proposal calls for expanding the footprint of the existing Agilent building. He speculated that the core designation would force the church to "scale back tremendously," negating any incentive to move from its overcrowded cathedral in Montclair.

But Zabihach said being in the core would not necessarily block the church's plan. If the church's application, for example, were to prove environmentally sound and not weaken the water supply, the state council likely would approve it, he said.

Christ Church spokesman Marc Weinstein said it was too early in the process for the church to comment.

Carroll, a lawyer who once offered to represent Christ Church, said that "any sort of emotion, other than profound sadness at the state taking over our land-use decisions, is premature."

Zabihach agreed with Carroll that it is too early to assess the bill's impact.

"There's three things that (first) have to happen," Zabihach said.

"There's a new regulatory process that has to be put in place by the DEP. Then the (Department of Community Affairs) has to create a set of procedures, rules and forms saying how any regulations will be handled. There will have to be creation of the council and staff," Zabihach said.

"All three (factors) will determine how that application will be reviewed," Zabihach said.

An Agilent spokesman did not return a phone call on Thursday.

Monday's planning board hearing on the Christ Church application will begin at 8 p.m. in the Copeland Middle School. Planning board attorney William Dimin is expected to advise the board on whether it should retain jurisdiction or refer the application to the board of adjustment due to its size.

Carroll said the Highlands bill likely will be debated in the courts. The list of potential plaintiffs, he speculated, could include Christ Church.

"At some point, somebody will sue on these regulations," Carroll said. "Maybe this particular entity has the deep pockets to do it."



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Well this article proves our point. CC is not interested in protecting our land or our drinking water. They are not willing to work with us. Where's all their compromises? Bad CC. I hope tED will now keep his mouth shut on NJ.CON. CC proves one of their only supporters from RT WRONG.

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A few things are interesting in this article.


1. There is a complete lack of facts about why this environmentally sensitive land would be included in the Highlands bill.


2. Carroll is clear in his closing statement as to his true personal agenda - he thinks CC has the deep pockets to fight.


3. CC has not commented via Marc, is he speechless, for once?


4. Our mayor is concerned about our water!


5. Rob is looking for some nasty position and completely misses the point we have been talking about for nearly 1 year - this is environmentally sensitive land and obvoiusly others see this too.


6. He refers to Chuck Mueller as "the" opponent to CC, I think he missed a few thousand others.


7. Interestly Rob called me last week to get my comments on Ted Doty - to which I replied - I have NO comment on him. - Yet no calls were placed to any member of Voices of Rockaway nor our attorney yesterday regarding this article. 


Have a nice day everyone and I will see you on Monday night - it may just be a very interesting night.


Lisa



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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks. The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.


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I love the last line of the article - about how deep pocketed cc is.  I wonder what else their 'deep pockets' can affect and control...

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quote:

Originally posted by: Lisa Salberg

" Interestly Rob called me last week to get my comments on Ted Doty - to which I replied - I have NO comment on him. - Yet no calls were placed to any member of Voices of Rockaway nor our attorney yesterday regarding this article. "


 


Also interesting - the Doty article was the top center of page 1 - in a more prominent position than the Highlands piece...I guess it was more of a news event!



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BR


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When is Carrol's term as Assemblyman up. If the township bands together and votes for his opponent, we can bump him out. (Unless his oponent is Doty)


Not many people actually vote for assemblymen, or even know what they do for that matter.


How may voters in RT, 12K?


Get the word out on the Assemblyman who did not support our town, next election.



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But he is a mountain man......Really.






Assemblyman Michael Carroll



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sorry the text did not copy.... But in seconds you learn about anybody..... http://www.michaelcarroll.com/mountainmen.html  

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Why is it such a shock to the CC crew that if 3 of the 4 aquifers are protected..that the 4th would obviously be protected as well?


I wonder if suing the town is what the NJ.con instigators meant by "CC supports the Highlands bill"???



 


 



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Protect our waters, we all live downstream


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This is todays article:


We, Rockaway have a right to protect our water. 


This is a quote from the article:


" "The intent (of the legislation) was to protect undisturbed properties and not existing properties," Bill Finch, Agilent's government affairs manager in Wilmington, Del., said Friday."


May I ask you all a question, do you think that Bill from Agilents Government affairs office in Delaware has any unique ability to judge what the intent of the Highlands Bill is?    This is only his opinion.


Some people have been saying for months that  it is OK for Christ Church to develop because there is already some development on the property. Can you use less thought to arrive at this opinion? It is as if it were OK paint your house with lead paint because there is lead paint on it from years ago.  As time move forward we learn and from that we make changes, like no longer using lead paint.  We know better now and from that knowledge we can protect the future.   I will admit that Bill used a great term "protect", yes we want to "protect" all property, developed or otherwise from additional stress and harm to the environment.


In the end the next quote says it all:


""That aquifer is a precious aquifer for Morris County, as well as for Rockaway Township. It's a key water resource. I'm not surprised it was included," Schrier"


 


06/19/04 - Posted from the Daily Record newsroom
Agilent: Land already developed


By Rob Jennings, Daily Record

ROCKAWAY TWP. - An Agilent Technologies spokesman expressed surprise Friday at the 107-acre tract's belated inclusion in the Highlands "core area" where development will be strictly limited.

"The intent (of the legislation) was to protect undisturbed properties and not existing properties," Bill Finch, Agilent's government affairs manager in Wilmington, Del., said Friday.

Montclair-based Christ Church has a controversial application pending to build a 3,000-seat sanctuary and school at the site on Green Pond Road,

The state Legislature approved the Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act on June 10 and Gov. James McGreevey has promised to sign the bill, which its supporters said is aimed at protecting drinking water.

Mayor Louis Sceusi, who supported the bill, disputed Finch's objection and noted that one of the township's four aquifers is on the Agilent site.

"The well field is right on their property. It's a major aquifer," Sceusi said.

The township's other three aquifers also were included in the 395,000-acre core.

"I want those water bodies, those aquifers and those wells protected," Sceusi added. "That's the whole principle behind the Highlands bill."

One of the bill's primary sponsors, state Sen. Bob Smith, D-Piscataway, said Friday that because of the presence of an aquifer, the Agilent site's inclusion in the core area made sense even though the property is partly developed.

Agilent's property was not part of the Highlands core in an earlier version of the bill but was added after a series of revisions.

Under the Highlands bill, a 15-member state council will be empowered to review and potentially quash development proposals in the core area.

Meanwhile, Christ Church is examining whether any modifications will be needed in its building proposal.

"They have all the intention of occupying the site," church spokesman Marc Weinstein said Friday.

"Whatever they have to do to be in compliance with the law, they'll do it," Weinstein added.

The planning board will hold a seventh public hearing Monday on Christ Church's proposal to build a 3,000-seat sanctuary, private K-5 facility and recreation facilities at the Agilent site, which has been under a $14 million purchase agreement with the church since last summer.

While some local opponents of Christ Church's application hope that the Highlands bill will be a roadblock, Morris County Planning Board Director Ray Zabihach said Thursday that being in the core will not necessarily block the church's plan.

If the church's plan, for example, were to prove environmentally sound and not weaken the water supply, the state council could approve it, Zabihach said.

The Highlands bill does provide some exemptions for existing church facilities, but Smith said that would not apply in the case of Christ Church, which currently operates out of a cathedral in Montclair.

Sceusi said he was surprised that the future site of Pond View Estates - a development of more than 1,000 condominiums along Route 15 that has been held up due to water supply concerns - was left out of the Highlands core, but he declined to express an opinion.

It took between 20 and 30 pages in the 108-page final Highlands bill to spell out the core boundaries. Smith said the lines may yet be revised, either through an amendment or a bill authorizing the council to make changes.

"The map, right now, is not perfect," said Smith, explaining that some properties at the "edges of preservation areas" that were excluded should have been included, and vice versa.

Morris County Freeholder Jack Schrier, of Mendham Township, supported both the bill and the inclusion of the Agilent site in the core.

"That aquifer is a precious aquifer for Morris County, as well as for Rockaway Township. It's a key water resource. I'm not surprised it was included," Schrier s



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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks. The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.


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quote:





Originally posted by: Lisa Salberg
 "The intent (of the legislation) was to protect undisturbed properties and not existing properties," Bill Finch, Agilent's government affairs manager in Wilmington, Del., said Friday." May I ask you all a question, do you think that Bill from Agilents Government affairs office in Delaware has any unique ability to judge what the intent of the Highlands Bill is?   


I would like to know why Agilient feels the need to comment at all.


Through their high paid corporate attorneys, they can opt out of this contract and sell to some one else


Unless for some unknown reason its in the best intrest of hp-agilent to sell to this particular buyer?


any thoughts?      



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Mornin Monster,


I have an idea that Agilent would need to comment in order to keep the property in play.  If potential buyers see it as a useless piece of land then it has no value to Agilent.  What needs to be clear here is that property would make a fine home for someone who can maintain the intensity of use consistent with the community and structure. 


If a company wanted to move in and lets just say they wanted to house 5000-6000 employees, it is not going to work - even if that is a split shift.  If a company of 1000-1500 was interested in the property that is a more realistic intensity in use and would be a good fit, split shifts over a full workweek will maintain traffic flow, water demands and safety concerns.


A potential property owner must be a responsible member of the community and not over burden the town resources, road ways, and must NOT damage the environment.


Have a nice day and see you all at Copeland Monday Night


 


Lisa


 



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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks. The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.


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Reportedly, the maximum number of employees ever working at the site in question was around 900. That lasted for about 2 years and then fell off thereafter.  Nominally and on average the head count was about 400. Also, it was distributed in two ways.  First, it was operated with that number of people over three shifts.  Second, each shift was operated on a "flex time" basis, meaning that starting time and ending time ranged over a 2.5 hour interval.  For example, an employee on the first shift could come in anywhere from 6:30 AM til 9:00 AM and then leave 8 hours thereafter.  I remember this information from a posting made by Maier some time ago on this venue who claims to have worked there for about 18 years.  It must still be here somewhere.  Also, he mentioned this at one of the very early meetings (pre-vort at the clubhouse, as I recall).  I suspect that this is reliable information. 

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Some of us are wondering why Agilent/HP is insisting on going forward with this contract.  There was a posting by an ex Agilent employee who was involved with land affairs about two months ago on this venue (you will have to research it to find it) which could possibly explain it.


Perhaps this is "Payback Time".


It turns out, according to the poster, that Agilent/HP was sued by Rockaway Township for polluting the town well.  The Company lost that lawsuit and had to pay recompense to the township.  The company, according to the poster, had several customers interested in the property, but their corporate headquarters would not entertain these offers.  Corporate claimed that they already had a buyer in place even before the property was put on the market.


It is possible that someone in power at that company is very unhappy about the lawsuit situation and finds this to be a good way to get retribution on this Township. 


It is just a theory, but usually there is a logical explaination for everything.  This is just one possible explaination.



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 Thank you lisa, silly me ,of course they have to keep the property viable.


Good morning rational,


 Back when business was slow, I held a union book with local 519. I was sent to HP to build the well and pump house. Actually what I did was nothing ,as I was the (very necessary ) token union guy. It was great work, stand around and crack jokes to myself. No one from the company spoke english, and I was just learning portugese.  Whats the point you ask? Well in my two months there,( I also managed traffic when we ran the power across the road) the work force at 400 seems alot. There just did not seem like alot of employees. So I believe your estimates are very close.



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