quote: Originally posted by: Matthew "Craig, In the paper, you're quoted as saying: "God created all souls and God will accept them back" Your assertion raises an interesting question: Did God create Hitler? Did God accept Hilter back? If your answers to these two questions are "yes" then are you saying that Hitler is in Heaven? Matthew"
Matthew - what is your obsession with Hitler. You constantly mention him. This is at least the third or forth time.
I really believe your only reason for posting on this board is to inflame and bait. Craig took your bait before and now there's a headline 'news' story, which of course, does not include your original assertion that all who do not accept JC do not go to heaven.
Craig - do not be baited by Matthew. He is a lion in sheep's clothing. He's here for one reason - to turn our town against itself.
quote: Originally posted by: Obsession " Matthew - what is your obsession with Hitler. You constantly mention him. This is at least the third or forth time. I really believe your only reason for posting on this board is to inflame and bait. Craig took your bait before and now there's a headline 'news' story, which of course, does not include your original assertion that all who do not accept JC do not go to heaven. Craig - do not be baited by Matthew. He is a lion in sheep's clothing. He's here for one reason - to turn our town against itself. "
Obsession,
Better check the posts again, for it was either Craig or Jay who originally brought Hitler into the discussion.
Speaking of Jay, he hasn't been posting for awhile. I wonder if he agrees with Craig's statement in the DR?
Funny how you guys bring up topics to discuss and when I attempt to get your true feelings on these topics you begin to throw insults and suggest I go elsewhere.
quote: Originally posted by: Craig Maier ""Obsession" is correct regarding our discourse. I will not longer engage in discussion with you Mathew. Good Riddance."
Craig,
I think this is a good decision on your part. It is obvious that you are not able to explain your assertion in the newspaper.
(( ... Funny how you guys bring up topics to discuss and when I attempt to get your true feelings on these topics you begin to throw insults and suggest I go elsewhere ... ))
ITA - you hit the nail on the head with that statement ... welcome to the club !!
quote: Originally posted by: Matthew " Obsession, Better check the posts again, for it was either Craig or Jay who originally brought Hitler into the discussion. "
Matthew,
Please find me a Hitler quote earlier than this one that occurred in the recent conversations:
Many have used a false mask of Christianity to murder for selfish gains (Hitler included) but that by no means negates the message of Jesus, does it?
It was made 7 days ago... The quote was made by you. You brought Hitler into the conversation. You made that quote just before you made your now imfamous attack on all religions but your own - "Never said they [other religions] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary."
You are obsessed with trying to divide our Township. You answered no questions that people asked. Instead, you spewed messages of division in an attempt to divide us.
We're on to you. Feel free to post - you have free speech. We'll feel free to ignore you, as is our right.
quote: Originally posted by: Obsession " Matthew, Please find me a Hitler quote earlier than this one that occurred in the recent conversations: Many have used a false mask of Christianity to murder for selfish gains (Hitler included) but that by no means negates the message of Jesus, does it? It was made 7 days ago... The quote was made by you. You brought Hitler into the conversation. You made that quote just before you made your now imfamous attack on all religions but your own - "Never said they [other religions] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary." You are obsessed with trying to divide our Township. You answered no questions that people asked. Instead, you spewed messages of division in an attempt to divide us. We're on to you. Feel free to post - you have free speech. We'll feel free to ignore you, as is our right. "
Obsession,
Does this quote of mine "bring Hilter into the discussion"? I didn't ask in that quote if Hitler were going to Heaven. That was initially posted by Craig as I recall. That is what I meant by bringing him into the discussion.
Did anybody respond to that post and continue to talk about Hitler as a result of it? No, it was Craig's questioning that brought it into "the discussion"
But if you feel that the mere mention of the name qualifies, then I concede! You are right, I am wrong.
And I am glad that you brought up my post again:
"Never said they [other religions] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary."
I still stand firmly behind this statement.
As of yet, I haven't seen any "evidence to the contrary" presented.
"Never said they [other religions] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary."
I still stand firmly behind this statement.
As of yet, I haven't seen any "evidence to the contrary" presented."
And I have not seen any evidence of your statement being true. No mortal has seen evidence of heaven. THAT IS WHY IS CALLED FAITH.
You are full of hate for those who do not follow you.
There is no point in continuing a conversation on this topic here as any statements made (other than YOUR hateful anti-everyone statement) will likely be taken out of context and used in a hurtful manner (it helps having mega-money to hire a professional PR staff, like Christ Church does).
The topic will revert back to "Christ Church - too large for Rockaway Township".
quote: Originally posted by: Obsession " And I have not seen any evidence of your statement being true. No mortal has seen evidence of heaven. THAT IS WHY IS CALLED FAITH. You are full of hate for those who do not follow you. There is no point in continuing a conversation on this topic here as any statements made (other than YOUR hateful anti-everyone statement) will likely be taken out of context and used in a hurtful manner (it helps having mega-money to hire a professional PR staff, like Christ Church does). The topic will revert back to "Christ Church - too large for Rockaway Township"."
I simply asked for someone here to explain how entrance to Heaven is gained, according to their religion.
No one has answered.
Matthew
It appears that someone hasn't previously seen "The Disclaimer" :
Not affiliated with CC (PR firms included) in any way, shape or form.
quote: Originally posted by: Matthew " I simply asked for someone here to explain how entrance to Heaven is gained, according to their religion. No one has answered."
actually matthew i've answered you...but you've made no recognition of it...
matthew...as i posted in "where's jay" - this is my answer to your "how good" question...
i don't think i need to cure cancer to get into heaven...i can only do as good as I can...meaning...i'm not a scientist...so i won't be curing cancer...but i can do many other good things...and live an honorable life...
i live each day g-d has given me...and thank him for his generosity!!!
i love my family and friends...and thank g-d for giving them to me!!!
i treat his creatures with kindess...i thank g-d for bringing them into my life and showing beauty!!!
i respect my religion - although i don't always agree 100%...and i thank g-d for giving me free will
i believe in g-d, jesus and the holy spirit...and i thank g-d for the gifts that have been bestowed upon me...
i believe he suffered and died for me (well...not me alone)...i have faith that he is at my side...even at my lowest point...and thank g-d for the company and for never feeling alone...
i believe ALL he created has a purpose...without evil there can be no good...and i thank g-d for showing me mostly good and beautiful things thus far in my life...
i believe that when bad things have happened...and i have been scared, felt pain or lost someone/something i love...he has given me the strength to get thru it...and i thank g-d for caring for me even when i doubt him and question why these things happen...
i believe that we are tested (bad things happening, loss, moments of doubt)...and with each test...even if we fail...we get stronger...and we are brought closer to him...and i thank g-d for understanding that I AM human and I AM flawed and REALLY thank g-d for loving me anyway...
i believe when the day comes that my faith is ultimately tested g-d will see all of these things...and welcome me into heaven...and i will see ULTIMATE beauty...and will be flawed no more...
oh...and i follow his commandments:
I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.
and if i mess up in a moment of anger...i tell him (as if he does not know) and say i'm sorry (truly sorry...meaning it from the bottom of my heart)...and i thank him for forgiving my flaws...yet again...
g-d sees us as his children...he loves us unconditionally...he hates actions (murder, rape, etc)...not people...that's why he's g-d...and i'm human...but even g-d can't let everyone into heaven...b/c some never FEEL remorse for their bad actions...those are souls that are scarred and cannot be healed...if you don't ask for forgiveness you cannot be forgiven...
in MY OPINION: i don't think hitler went to heaven...and i think anne frank did...
We all choose to believe what we choose to believe. We all have our beliefs about how to get into heaven, if that's all we're worried about.
I personally don't walk around saying, "I'd better not do that...I won't get into heaven."
More importantly than that, I think we focus on how to practice our own interpretation of our own religion in a way to best serve mankind and please our god/allah/muhammad/etc.
If all we're thinking about is "Gotta get into heaven" it makes practicing a religion (hell, even living) kind of self-serving, don't you think?
I don't think God wants me to make my decisions on whether or not I'll get the grand prize. I think God wants me to do my best to be a good person and please him.
Matthew's goal is not to find out people's opinions. He's been given many - by you, by Jay, by Craig - he rejects them all. His goal is to make an obscene statement, ie - Only my religion gets people into heaven, and then sit back and wait for people to attack him (and his religion).
He's refused to answer every question asked of him.
He's asked many questions of others and gotten answers, which he refuses to accept.
His goal has been to bring about in inflamed dialogue on religion. He's succeeded. Congratulations Matthew. You've one the round.
It's time to accept him for what he is - a hateful person - someone who thinks that the rest of the world is comprised of lesser individuals because they do not share his beliefs. It is also time to move on. These conversations with him only serve to divide our town at a time when we need to come together.
Forgive him father, he knows not what he does (but if he does know what he does...well - I'm sure an appropriate reward will await him someday in the distant future).
"Maria listed many things she believes concerning Christianity.For example, she listed the Ten Commandments.My question then is, Maria, is following the Ten Commandments a requirement to get into Heaven?"
matthew - those are guidelines for us to live by...they show WHAT g-d wants from us...and how he expects us to live...in my list there was also an explanation that people can mess up...and they can be forgiven...but g-d is the only that sees into their heart...and can tell if they are heartily sorry for their sins...a key point to actually being forgiven!!!
as far as the commandments being a way into heaven...i can only answer for me and the religion i was brought up to follow...yes...we are to live by these commandments...(again...we can be forgiven for mistakes)...
however...i understand that other religions have other versions of commandments to follow...and for them...that brings them closer to their g-d and heaven (as they view it)...
i just happen to respect other religions...similiarities and differences...i don't expect to understand all of their positions...b/c that is not the faith with which i was brought up...and sometimes...there is no explanation for FAITH...b/c in essence it is a belief without proof...ie...i have never seen heaven...but i have faith that there is a heaven...
with my latest comments...i agree with the others...this conversation can go no further...it's been quite circular!!! i hope you have learned something by it - especially about FAITH!!!
:confused
