the "Rockaway Township Free Speech Message Board," found on the Internet site of Voices of Rockaway Township.
I would hope that a member of VORT will inform Mr. Jennings that this board is NOT a part of VORT. VORT links to this board - as they also link to various other sites including the Daily Record, nj.com, NY Times, and Christ Church. I believe it is imperative that the Daily Record retract the above statement.
The message board was established after numerous posts opposing the building plan were deemed offensive and removed from another Internet site.
This really smells of a "PR" type (MW perhaps?) telling Mr. Jennings the facts instead of the truth about what really was going on at nj.com. The offensive posts at nj.com are the posts that have been made over the past two weeks that have been filled with hate, lies, and personal attacks against VORT members. Everyone who was on the nj.com board a few months ago KNOWS that the posts that were being removed were NOT offensive posts, but posts that simply stated facts that some did not want to see...AT that time, the nj.com board was being 'controlled' and had an agenda. Was it one person working at nj.com? Was it someone who had 'inside access' somehow? We'll never know, but we all saw the results...Anything that was posted that refuted a pro-CC or anti-VORTR post was removed.
I assume that Mr. Jennings might be reading this message. If you are - Mr. Jennings, I ask you - what is wrong with the following post. It was removed from the nj.com board within 5 minutes of it's posting. Do you find it offensive? What I find offensive was the attack on my free speach at the nj.com board:
1560. No middle ground
by RockTwpRes, 3/3/04 11:18 ET
There can be no middle ground. All the 'olive branches' that Rev. Ireland offers (or will offer in the future) are (will be) minor and side issues.
The main issue is the number of congregants that they have now and in the future, and the traffic those congregants will generate.
Look at Rev. Ireland's two quotes in today's Daily Record article:
"We are willing to make concessions," Ireland said.
"We can't change the size of the congregation," Ireland said.
So tell us - what concessions could they make to reduce traffic, when they can't change the size of their congregation.
What concession will they make in the future? Megachurches attempt to grow and CC will attempt to grow. If their track record for growth is any indication, they WILL grow, and they will grow quickly. How will CC address future traffic issues / growth?
Will they promise us not to grow? It'll never happen. They'll never make a meaningfull concession because there are no concessions they can make that will both allow them to grow boundlessly and also address Rockaway Township residents' traffic concerns.
quote: Originally posted by: Lisa Salberg "Good points. I did tell Mr. Jennings that the message board is NOT run by VORT simply linked to our website, yet this critical information was not in the article. Lisa "
Lisa,
Who is this board run by? An impartial third party? Or a strong supporter of VORT?
The link to this board on VORT's site isn't anywhere near the link to the nj.com site.
There is no disclaimer stating that VORT has no control over this board. The only verbiage suggests that this board has the full endorsement of VORT:
"If you are tired of having your posts deleted without reason on other message boards try the new Rockaway Twp. Free Speech Message Board!"
Also, there is a post, written by you Lisa, that has been given special status and obviously deemed "very important" by this boards host. This post has been given "sticky status" so it always appears at the top of the list.
There is no ambiguity, VORT and their supporters clearly control this site.
Sure--that post is a reminder about what the Church issue is about, the true issues from VORT's (and most of the township's) perspective.
The reason I made it a sticky is, as you are well aware, many of us tend to stray from the real issues, discussing irrelevant issues such as religion, and that particular post, I felt, was effective in keeping the real issues in front of us so we don't take the other nonsense too seriously.
I was not asked to make that post a sticky, and if you have an objection or some reason why it should not be a sticky, I'd be interested in hearing it.
Perhaps you'd be happier if we all got mired in emotional issues and name-calling--that way the real issues could sink down a page or two away from the top of this board and we'd forget what it was REALLY about.
Way to go Karen! Perhaps Matthew would like us to Montclaire Free Speech. I think Lisa's post is right where it belongs if it gets under Matthews craw.
Originally posted by: Karen "Sure--that post is a reminder about what the Church issue is about, the true issues from VORT's (and most of the township's) perspective. The reason I made it a sticky is, as you are well aware, many of us tend to stray from the real issues, discussing irrelevant issues such as religion, and that particular post, I felt, was effective in keeping the real issues in front of us so we don't take the other nonsense too seriously. I was not asked to make that post a sticky, and if you have an objection or some reason why it should not be a sticky, I'd be interested in hearing it. Perhaps you'd be happier if we all got mired in emotional issues and name-calling--that way the real issues could sink down a page or two away from the top of this board and we'd forget what it was REALLY about."
By given Lisa's post "top billing" you are clearly endorsing VORT's views.
Can you honestly call this a "Free Speech" board and then control that speech by given certain posts preferential treatment?
Look Matt, I'm sorry the Residents for Truth in Rockaway site isn't getting any attention. It's really a shame, so much work went into it.
On what level does that sticky impede on your right to free speech?
Feel free to say what you like about it. I'd be interested in your feedback/rebuttals to the issues VORT raises.
Say it within that thread and your post is sticky too!
Please don't repeat over and over about the law being followed, though...of course the law will be followed, and it does get tedious reading repetitious posts.
quote: Originally posted by: Karen "Look Matt, I'm sorry the Residents for Truth in Rockaway site isn't getting any attention. It's really a shame, so much work went into it. On what level does that sticky impede on your right to free speech? Feel free to say what you like about it. I'd be interested in your feedback/rebuttals to the issues VORT raises. Say it within that thread and your post is sticky too! Please don't repeat over and over about the law being followed, though...of course the law will be followed, and it does get tedious reading repetitious posts."
When some speech is deemed "more important" than other speech, then the exchange of ideas is no longer free. It is controlled.
I'll agree that you had done a GREAT JOB of keeping this board a truly "Free Speech" forum.
But now that you're endorsing one person's speech over others, my view has changed. You are using your power as the board admin to promote one person's post. As long as certain posts receive special treatment, this is not a "Free Speech" forum.
You know Matt. I usually don't lower myslef to name calling, but that last post of yours earns the title "Chump O' The Day".
Enjoy your title...you've earned over the past several days.
If you followed the hisroy of things...this board was created because some many of us agianst a mega-church had our posts deleted on the only local board.
If upi noticed...none of your rablle rousing, divisional toipics or baiting posts have been deleted...although I do know someone who can tickle the keyboard, sing a song and rid us of your presence.
quote: Originally posted by: Mark B. "You know Matt. I usually don't lower myslef to name calling, but that last post of yours earns the title "Chump O' The Day". Enjoy your title...you've earned over the past several days. If you followed the hisroy of things...this board was created because some many of us agianst a mega-church had our posts deleted on the only local board. If upi noticed...none of your rablle rousing, divisional toipics or baiting posts have been deleted...although I do know someone who can tickle the keyboard, sing a song and rid us of your presence. So...bugger off with your inflammatory snippets. Sincerely, Mark"
Mark,
With your name calling and suggesting I leave you have now landed yourself in the same pen with Craig.
And you suggest I could be banned from this board? What would be the reason? I am saying things you don't like?
1. Sure, you could be banned from the board; if as you say, it were not a "free speech" board.
2. I strongly disagree about the sticky. I still think you'd be happier if we all got mired in emotional issues and name-calling--that way the real issues could sink down a page or two away from the top of this board and we'd forget what it was REALLY about. Oh well.
What would you put on YOUR sticky, if you were to try to make things "balanced"?
quote: Originally posted by: Karen "1. Sure, you could be banned from the board; if as you say, it were not a "free speech" board. 2. I strongly disagree about the sticky. I still think you'd be happier if we all got mired in emotional issues and name-calling--that way the real issues could sink down a page or two away from the top of this board and we'd forget what it was REALLY about. Oh well. What would you put on YOUR sticky, if you were to try to make things "balanced"?"
Karen,
If you're suggesting that you'd give me a "sticky", then thanks that really is a great gesture. But I thought your decision to let the active topics come to the top was excellent. I think "stickies" are not needed.
Although if you wanted to put a sticky post at the top directing the viewer to VORT's website (with no endorsement) that would be great. Of course, balance would be when you also included a link to CC and/or the Rockaway Truth website in the same post. [The RockawayTruth.com website has a link to this forum (with no comments) on their links page.]
quote: Originally posted by: Matthew " Mark, With your name calling and suggesting I leave you have now landed yourself in the same pen with Craig. And you suggest I could be banned from this board? What would be the reason? I am saying things you don't like?
Matthew"
Ohhh Matt....So now...with your high and mighty , know it all attitude have decided that I am in the same pen with Craig...
Ohh...woop de do....if it's because I have grown tired of your rabble rousing and have decided to call a spade a spade, and you don't like it ....
SO WHAT....
I know what is right for this town....
and fighting to keep a mega-church out is what think is right.
I debate on those terms of : Size Impact Burden Scope
