Never said they [Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc..] didn't do ANY good. I simply said they weren't getting people into heaven as far as I could see. You're free to provide evidence to the contrary.
A very interesting conversation took place on this board yesterday with "Matthew". Matthew's claim is that although Jews (and Muslims and Hindus and others) are capable of doing good, they will never find heaven because they do not accept Matthew's brand of religion.
Not being familiar with Rev Ireland, I would like to know, is this his teaching? As a Jew, will I burn in hell for all eternity (according to him), because I do not accept his religion (although I do follow the JEWISH bible as best I can). Will my Indian friends all suffer along with me because they do not accept his views? Are all non born-against destined to burn in hell - no matter how good they live their lives? It seems that according to Matthew we are. Do Matthew's views represent Rev Ireland's views?
Also - Matthew mentions 'spreading the gospel'. Are we to look forward to having our doorbells rung by CC followers attempting to have us 'accept his gospel'?
I'd like to see a reply from someone who represents or at least attends CC.
According to many Christian zealots...that's exactly what will happen to you. You could follow the torah to the "T", a muslim could follow the koran, Buddhist and Tibetten monks...all great, knowledgable, caring, G-D loving souls are going to burn in HELL because they don't accept Christ. How about the 7,000 years of buddhists and the 3,000 years of jews before ol' JC showed up. Is the Hell thing retroactive?
You wonder how they became the largest religion?
I alwayas pictured Jesus looking down at the Spanish Inquisition, the crusades, the Nazis, the Klan etc. and say "you schmucks...I'm jewish"
As I stated previously, I didn't make this up. The Bible is quite clear on the teachings of Jesus. I would encourage anyone to thoroughly check them out and decide for yourself.
quote: Originally posted by: Matthew "As I stated previously, I didn't make this up. The Bible is quite clear on the teachings of Jesus. I would encourage anyone to thoroughly check them out and decide for yourself. Matthew"
So tell us Matthew - is the vast majority of the world's population headed to a permanent burn in hell because we do not accept Jesus?
Is this what Rev. Ireland preaches?
...Just what I want in my town - someone who loudly will tell all people that the souls of everyone outside of his own faith are worthless - unable to attain heaven, because we do not accept YOUR religion. Again - look back at history - If you want to see the roots of radical Islam, look at the Crusades - caused by attitudes like yours...
You are quite an **** to use the document that aspouses christianity to prove it. That is what is called "circular logic." To put it in simple terms that you can understand it means "I said it and therefore it must be true." The NT is not universally accepted and therefore can not be used to prove anything that it says. Basic logic. You must go to previous reference documents to do that. Duh!!
Example:
I am Godzilla.
To proove it, see above.
Case proven.
Ughhh. The ****ing ignorance in this world makes me nuts.
Some basic logic applied to comparisons between the Jewish and Christian Monotheistic religions:
Basic Background:
Christians, Jews and all assume that G-d was discovered by what we call he "Jews" via his covenant with Abraham. G-d codified that relationship with his people (the Jewish people) at Sinai with his covenant which he proclaimed (according to Torah {the first five books of the Christian bible}) that if his "chosen people" followed certain rules (amongst them the ten commandments, but others too if you are Jewish - - - do not wanna get off on that tanent).
Precepts:
Given that G-d is the following: (Mr. Town Clown will not like this cause I am going to use numbers and since he has a hard time counting, it will cause him some cognigive problems)
1. G-d is Omnipotent meaning all powerful and controls all. That is a basic Judaic precept. K??
2. G-d is Omniscent meaning that G-d not only created then, but now, and also the future.
3. G-d is timeless. G-d knows what was, is and will be.
My conclusions:
So, if you accept that Jesus created a second covenant with the world, then one would have to accept that our monotheist G-d lied to his people at Sinai. G-d certainly knew what was about to happen in the future. So, for one to accept that Jews will go to "something called hell" as defined by Christians means that those who believe that would have to call G-d a Lier.
4. I do not believe that G-d was, or is or will be a Lier. G-d may have opened the doors to all people to his kingdom through some other means, but he certainly did not damn the Jews.
5. I note that there are only about 15 million of us Jews in a world of 6.2 billion. Hmmm.
6. We, as a religion (and a people too) have survived since about 3500 BCE.
7. We have not died as most societies have.
8. I doubt that G-d made a covenent with the "discoverer" of the monothestic world and then decided to ignore his previous covenant with his "chosen people" when Jesus came along.
9. There have been well over 1000 Jewish people who have claimed to be the Messiah over time.
10. Jesus does not fit the profile of a Meshiac according to Isaiah (part of the Tanakh)
11. According to Jewish scripture (the old testament or what we call the Tanakh) the Mesianic era will be marked by 1000 years of peace and tranquility amongst all peoples.
12. If you are intellectually honest, does anyone here really believe that after Jesus was born and that we have had item number 11 occur?
12. Do you think the Crusades, Inquisition, Nazism, etc were good examples of so called "Christian Virtues?" (If I were Christian, I would be embarassed as all hell about it all).
13. If you think so, ok. But does that mean that us descendants of Abraham are doomed? Really??
14. If so, you are perverse and I do not want you living in my town. I do not want to go to your "heaven." I am afraid of you. You scare the **** out of me.
15. Sorry, but that is the way that I feel.
Craig Daniel Maier
The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and not those of VORT or anyone else necessarily.
Q How many HUMANS were involved in the editing of the Bible?
A Thousands
Q New and Old Testiment?
A THOUSANDS
Q How many times was it "changed", "altered", "revised" or "otherwise redacted"?
A THOUSANDS
Q What was the purpose of many of these revisions? -
A POLITICS and CONTROL
If you wish to discuss religion...remember HUMANS have written the documents you argue about. Who knows the total and complete truth...the Jews, the Christians, The Budist, the Atheists, or one of the hundereds of other relitions in the world?... likely NO ONE group has it 100% correct.
The application being reviewed by the planning board has NOTHING to do with these matters and it is well advised to not blur the lines as to what this is all about.
CC is simply too large for a rural area...end of story.
Craig, your recent post here is a paste from another thread, please see my response there for my reply.
Regarding this thread and the "Truth" of Christianity in relation to CC's application before the PB: In my view, there is NO relation. That is why I would not be against 5000 Muslims (or Jews or Hindus, etc) moving to the Agilent Site as long as they complied with the law.
I simply feel that "world religions" and "knowing where one will spend eternity" are topics worthy of discussion on this board. By the number and length of posts on these threads, it would seem that many here agree.
Regarding my absence from this board for a few days: I am truly sorry for my delay in responding. I do have many other things going on in my life, as I am sure you do. I will continue to answer any questions that you have as best as I can as time allows.
Answer me this Matthew - how does the current proposal look to you? You have studied it, right? (since you have no problems with CC's move here).
This might work for them if they moved into the current structure (with no future expansion allowed) but we all know he would never agree. So, I have looked at plans and it is easy to see - this colosuss is WAY TO BIG period. No religious argument from me, just the facts.
That is why I would not be against 5000 Muslims (or Jews or Hindus, etc) moving to the Agilent Site as long as they complied with the law.
Hey...Matt....do you think we have been fooled in to believing that your leader intends on having a congregation/membership of 5,000 members.
While he has offered a rediculous olive branch in the past, he never offerd us an idea of what his end goal, or any projection on his growth plans.
He states he has none in mind and can't foresee the future, and anyone with a shred of education or experience wold have an idea before embarking on a project as large as he proposes.
So... there is something being preached here....DECEPTION.
and while you feel you can discuss what you wish on this board: >
Your discussion and thoughts have no bearing on the fact that the church is too large for the location and will cause undue stresses of which your selfish leader wants no responsibilty for helping.
Or tODD,rUSS or tED. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It is pathetic that the folks here argue the semantics of religion with you. The real issues will have nothing to do with religion when decision time arrives.
