What's in it for us? - The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board

Date: Tue Apr 6 1:58 PM, 2004

What's in it for us?

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:19 PM, 2004

Craig, simply list the benefits that all the EXISTING Jewish Temples, Christian churches, and other houses of worship provide and you will have your list.

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:24 PM, 2004

Wrong answer, idiot. We already have our places of worship and besides there is only one family who belongs to cc. So, we should turn this town upside down for the convenience of worship for that one family at the inconvenience of the rest of our ability to worhip on Sundays?? Cut the crap and give me serious benefits that this monstrosity is going to bring to this town.

Start Listing:

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:24 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Not hard to answer
"Craig, simply list the benefits that all the EXISTING Jewish Temples, Christian churches, and other houses of worship provide and you will have your list. "

sorry...the existing temples and churches provide a place to worship for RT's residents...not thousands of people from other towns...

we - the residents of RT - have plenty of places to worship...we don't need another...the existing churches/temples are quite sufficient for our needs...so what can cc bring to the table to offer RT that it needs (ie...not already readily available to us) and will effect our town in a POSITIVE way...

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:24 PM, 2004

the majority (99% as admitted by CC) of houses of worship, comprised of the local communuty members? They serve the repective community at large, they do not bring in many thousands of out of towners week in and week out.

Let's compare apples to apples, @ss.

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:27 PM, 2004

Is really cranked up!!! I guess the next planning board meeting is creeping up.

Fire away CC spinsters - we see through you!!!

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:37 PM, 2004

Do the current H.o.W. (Houses of Worship) provide any benefit or don't they? If they do, you can't say that CC won't offer those same benefits.

And you say you have enough H.o.W. already? That's funny, I never noticed on the RT zoning ordinances that there was a limit on how many H.o.W. could exist in the Township.

You are saying that you don't want them in RT because you feel that most of RT residents aren't interested in the 'flavor' of religion that CC will offer?

Well, you can't exclude them on those grounds. Sorry.

Bottom line: CC will offer the same benefits that any other H.o.W. offers.

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:47 PM, 2004

Most people in this town are much to smart to fall into a Cult like Irelands. We have our legitimate Houses of Worship. We do not go to Sunday school to play basketball or work out. Go find a town that wants you. Go find a town willing to support the infrastructure needed to sustain you. We do not want you here - - - you are not welcome.

And I am still waiting for a listing of what is in it for US?? Still nada.

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:52 PM, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: No List yet
"Do the current H.o.W. (Houses of Worship) provide any benefit or don't they? If they do, you can't say that CC won't offer those same benefits.

yes...and i'm sure cc offers the same things...but to residents of other towns - from quite a distance away...the residents of RT already have their own churches and temples that they attend...so...what NEW benefits...that don't already exist in RT can cc offer???

And you say you have enough H.o.W. already? That's funny, I never noticed on the RT zoning ordinances that there was a limit on how many H.o.W. could exist in the Township.

i merely said there were ample churches and temples to fulfill the needs of the current residents of RT (i believe we have 14 existing places to worship)...i never stated anything about zoning...for the size of our town there is no NEED for another...

You are saying that you don't want them in RT because you feel that most of RT residents aren't interested in the 'flavor' of religion that CC will offer?

i have no clue where this whole "flavor" thing came from...and quite honestly it seems like a statement that was written to start up another racist attack on RT...

Well, you can't exclude them on those grounds. Sorry. Bottom line: CC will offer the same benefits that any other H.o.W. offers. "

but...won't benefit the residents of RT...

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:54 PM, 2004

you can do better than that, brother Craig.

Give us a list of what benefits the existing H.o.W. provide.

And by the way, you can't exclude them because you don't like their religion.

But by your statements it's obvious that is exactly why you're against them.

They'll comply with the environment and zoning laws, and after that, there's nothing that can be done to stop them.

RLUIPA will stand.

Date: Tue Apr 6 2:58 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: C'mon genius!
"Give us a list of what benefits the existing H.o.W. provide."

maybe this basic hypothetical story will help you understand:

if i have access to a coffee shop and there is one located right down the street...another coffee shop decides to open two streets away...there is no benefit that comes from the second shop...i had everything i needed already...

what NEW benefit will cc provide the town...

i already know they will cause traffic, environment and tax issues...

ps...i think craig is doing just fine...

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:01 PM, 2004

I have already proven using simple logic that RLUIPA will not stand. See my post on that topic. Besides the logical argument that I presented, it is a states rights issue.

Why do you ccers want to worship in a town that:

a. Only has one family who is a member?

b. Does not want you?

c. Will never expand its membership from within this township?

You can fight us all you want, but you are wasting your money. We are just spending Agilents so who cares? We can do that for years and we will if we have to.

Now, list the benefits for RT that cc will bring:

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:03 PM, 2004

1. Houses of worship generally arise from a need WITHIN the community of people WITHIN the community to gather WITHIN their community to worship with others who live WITHIN the community.

I haven't heard anyone lately saying "Gee whiz, I want so badly to go to church/temple/synagogue/mosque/whatever, but darned if I can find one that can take me!"

If that were the case there would be a gathering of like-minded citizens who would propose such a house of worship.

Before the planning board WITHIN their own community.

And they'd get their house of worship, within reason.

And maybe they'd offer
prayer groups...
a child care center...
some athletic facilities...
a youth group...
some community related meetings...

THAT BENEFIT PEOPLE WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY.

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:07 PM, 2004

Thanks for giving Craig a hand Maria, he needed it.

Too bad you missed the mark.

So if there is a coffee shop in town, you don't need another in your example?

With that logic, the RT should only allow ONE Christian church, one Jewish Temple, etc. But there are many, and some are very similar AND quite close to one another.

Admit it, you know their religion is much different from anything currently in RT.

And you don't want it here.

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:08 PM, 2004

They're Christians, nimrod. What's so weird about their religion?

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:12 PM, 2004

If they are Christians, let them join any of the myriad of existing Christian Churches here in RT. But I doubt that they are really Christians since their leader does not even know the ten commandments, especially the one that says "thou shalt not bear false withness." It is just a Cult and RT does not need a Cult.

Now, please list the benefits that cc brings to RT below:

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:13 PM, 2004

"With that logic, the RT should only allow ONE Christian church, one Jewish Temple, etc. But there are many, and some are very similar AND quite close to one another."

nope...sorry...that coffee shop serves my area...the location that is convenient and suitable to my needs...and the needs of the people in my neighborhood - we get everything we need right there...the people 10 streets away have one of their own also...and in btw there is a tea shop for those who want something a little different...hence that second coffee shop that is catering to people 45 minutes away, clogging my streets is NOT offering me and my neighbors and benefit!!!

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:13 PM, 2004

"a. Only has one family who is a member?"

Sorry, wrong.

"b. Does not want you?"

Wrong again, some do.

"c. Will never expand its membership from within this township?"

You're not only a Genius Craig, but you see the future as well! How thankful the residents of RT must be to have a man of your ability in the midst!

Craig, here's a tip: Truth is not determined by the limit of the information that is in your brain. Let me simplify this for you: There is some information that you don't know. Check the facts before you speak. You'll have less of a mess to clean up afterwards.

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:19 PM, 2004

Please list the benefits that cc brings to Rockaway Township below:

(You are having a very hard time with this most basic of questions)

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:21 PM, 2004

craig...(i know you know this already) there is no response to your question...b/c they have no benefits to offer RT...not one - not one that we can't already see in our own backyard!!!

they've already proven they will not respect the people that live in the town...why would any of us think that they would want to provide any positives for us???

we HAVE all of the churches and temples we need...they provide religious guidance and various charities/services to the community of RT - everything they do benefits the residents of RT and then spreads outward...

cc wants to come in - take from the community - diminish our quality of life (traffic and environment) and do good in their kingdom and for their parishoners...then the all drive home...45 minutes...i can't fathom why the parishoners would want this - if they really do...

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:26 PM, 2004

This guy is dragging you in to a hole - the fact remains that the proposed mega-campus is way to huge and will never get off the ground here in RT.

When the school is finished we can laugh at these clowns all day.

Date: Tue Apr 6 3:33 PM, 2004

Good luck getting an answer, Craig-

I asked this question many times beginning back in October on nj.com and have yet to hear an answer!

Date: Tue Apr 6 4:18 PM, 2004

In a writing mood today, instead of just laughing, so here goes:

CC benefits: the same spiritual benefits found at other churches, but potentially better (depends on your preference - but we will have another choice); programs that are open to all of us, but which may be bigger and better funded than our present options (the CC website seems to list a wide range of ministries); a dynamic, growing church focused on a diverse congregation and worship style (this may be in contrast to other local houses of worship which may be stagnant in terms of growth and community impact).

So there you go - everything CC offers will be available to the CC community, which would include all of us! Up to you to take it or leave it, but to say that no locals would ever join is absurd.

What will CC "take"? - nothing - I already posted the fact that the traffic study shows no present overburdening by the proposal (and new roads will come) and that all environmental laws are complied with (thanks I did review the filings). No "spin" just a disagreement on the facts.

Go ahead, please say something funny now.

Date: Tue Apr 6 4:31 PM, 2004

Can attend CC for all these wonderful benefits - when they find a property that fits the need's of a mega-compound. It will never see the light of day here in RT, that is a given.

Please keep us posted as to where your wonderful church finds it's final destination, and we can foward info off to tED and rUSS.

Date: Tue Apr 6 9:19 PM, 2004

While many in this country turn to these charismatic christian churches (born again) to connect with Jesus, they often fall prey to false profits. Here is a true story that I read a while back, when the whole CC drama started.

A woman, from Newark I think it was, said in a news article that she wasn't sure if she had enough money to pay her bills, for food, or for heat that month, but made sure she tithed her 10% to CC first.

I feel sorry for this woman. She is being tricked into thinking that she is putting the lord first, and for that she will be rewarded in heaven. The truth is she made a payment on Irelands new Lexus SUV.

Beware of a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Date: Tue Apr 6 9:24 PM, 2004

Some posts in this thread are refering to a "only one member in town" Well it's not Russ.

Remember a while back he stated that he and his family attend CC in Montclair but are not members.

The reason:

Once you become a member, you sign a tithing contract.

Date: Wed Apr 7 6:02 AM, 2004

Reverend Ireland himself said there are "many, many people who attend for years and never become members".

How many is "many, many"?

Membership entails a tithe AND a 3-month class.

PLUS they have 5,000 members, 75% of whom attend on a normal Sunday.

Something to look forward to, indeed!

Date: Wed Apr 7 6:18 AM, 2004

and I don't need to be born again.

What I do need is my town to stay the way it is. I need Green Pond Rd to be accessible to me whenever since it's the only road I have to get to where I'm going. I need my town not to double in size by people who have no interest in the town. I need my town to have growth that will benefit the town with people who are part of the town, who will give to the town and not disrupt the town. I need my town to respect the waterways and environmental concerns. I need my town to accept all of it's residents without bias as to religion and sexual preference.

Can CC give me any of the above? If no, then

WE DON'T NEED CC's BENEFITS FOR THEY DO NOT BENEFIT ROCKAWAY!

Date: Wed Apr 7 8:31 AM, 2004

HEY, PEOPLE, WAKE UP, THERE IS NO "TITHING CONTRACT" FOR MEMBERS OF CHRIST CHURCH.

Date: Wed Apr 7 8:56 AM, 2004

I needed a break from work ...

Historically, houses of worship are born into a community during it's early period of growth -- hence they have "roots" in the community.

Many generations from a family will attend services and belong to the religious community. Church leaders will marry sons and daughters -- there is a sense of family within houses of worship.

CC has no roots here. One family from RT attends services there. That simply isn't enough to warrant RT residents to welcome an entire religious organization with open arms.

Do you get it now? The already existing houses of worship have provided the families of RT with all the religious benefits they have needed for generations. RT does not need another.

The bottom line is the the houses of worship in RT provide a sense of belonging to it's members. Christ Church does not belong here.