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Post Info TOPIC: More on the Request for Info Tract
RT11

Date:
More on the Request for Info Tract


I thought I heard the good rev's planner state that there was a 300 yard limitation for churches (assuming what a church is is finally defined.) 
If my ears did not fail me, my question relates to where the 300 yards is measured from - the actual building or the property line.  Since the Norseman Gas Station is definitly less than 300 yards from the property line, it may be relavant.

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Kim Jenkins

Date:

I wondered about that, but I believe the answer was  -  a Gas Station could not move in within 300' of a church.  This gas station was already there.


 


Hope this helps.  sorry



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Charlie (RT11)

Date:

Thanks for the response Kim. 


I just can't belive that a law can or would be enacted so it is against just the gas station opening, but not vice versa.  If that is the case, it gives non-gas staiton businesses more latitude than a gas station.  I'd say that would be challenged at some point if that is what it says.  Here's hoping it goes both ways.



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Craig Maier

Date:

The laws are so lopsided today (as in RLUIPA and many others that protect the wrong parties) that it would not suprise me that if Ireland gets his church, the Gas Station owner would be required to tear down his own place at his own cost.  (That is my sarcastic attempt at humor)

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ks

Date:

1. I think it's 300 feet, not 300 yards (unless I'm thinking of two separate issues)


2. I reckon it'd probably depend on whether the entire "campus"/"family life center" is considered a church or just the sanctuary itself is...back to that old question! It might be within 300' of the actual property but not the sanctuary.


Just a thought--



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Dead issue, move on

Date:

Did you see the head-jerking reaction by the "vortulous four" in the front row when the gas station stipulation was mentioned! For a moment, they were hoping that somehow that meant since the gas station was already there, that somehow the reverse of what was said would be true, and the church could be denied because of this.

It is really sad when it is so blatantly obvious the the vorters will grasp for dear life on to anything that they think will have a chance at stopping this church. It is sad because the is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that this church will "ruin the Township".

No one has pointed to a case where it has happened before. No mega-church has been found to have destroyed it's community.



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OK Smartass--

Date:

Show us an example of a megachurch that migrated to a completely different geographical and cultural community (miles away from its congregants) and plopped itself in the middle of a small town full of residents who care what happens in their township.


The church must have strong-armed itself into the township against the wishes of the locals.


Show us that scenario and we'll show you a township of taxpaying locals who would say their town HAS INDEED been invaded at best, assaulted and violated more likely.


That is if you can find any of those residents still residing in that town.



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rockaway is #1

Date:

Don't you mean the  "FABULOUS FOUR"  ?

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Rick S

Date:

Does this sound familiar:
"We've been called everything from demonic henchmen to agents of the devil," says Hicks, 52, a retired computer specialist who lives on land his family has owned for almost 40 years. "What we're going after has nothing to do with their religion. ...Our lifestyle has gotten to be curtailed around what they do, their comings and goings, especially on Sunday. They told us, if we didn't like it, to move."


How about this:
"Everyone is rejoicing ó except neighbors and community activists who dislike the noise and traffic."


Neither quote is from Rockaway - Read about them both here (click the link) - along with some horror stories about other mega-churches that have ruined their communities.  By the way, the first quote is from Ohio and the second from Oregon.


"And it gets worse. If homeowners or the cities afflicted by these obscenely large mansions of God try to do anything to limit their expansion they risk being called anti-Christian or even sued for violating a horrid federal law that basically gives churches the liberty to do damn near whatever they want and to expand as much as they like." - We're in Texas now - here's the link


How about this quote:
"This project will tear the heart out of our beautiful neighborhood...The city has failed to address the inevitable traffic, light, noise and storm-water runoff problems this ill-conceived expansion portends for the future."


Nope - not from Rockaway - more like South Carolina


How about out west in Seattle: "``I will never, ever be able to get out of my driveway,'' a woman said, directing her words toward city staff who organized the neighborhood meeting to discuss possible traffic solutions. But residents didn't want to talk about traffic alternatives. They said they don't want the church at all."


I love this one - from Southern Methodist University - "Megachurches, by spreading their activities far beyond the pale of religion, donít just take blatant advantage of the generous protections offered to faith in this country through the skirting of zoning laws ó they fail in their Christian duty to treat others as they would wish to be treated." - Sounds like a very familiar complaint.


So - to those of you who think Rockaway Township is the ONLY place in the world fighting a megachurch...do your research.  You'll find we are not alone.  You'll see that all the names that we are being called - racist, anti-Christian, etc., have been used before in other towns.  You'll also find that megachurches that are already in towns do things like buy up the neighborhood, pave it over, and put in more parking to serve their evergrowing congregations.


Oh - a couple of more quotes:
"Church leaders must be savvy in zoning matters that can sour community relations" and "Jesus once talked about making friends with one's accusers on the way to court (Matt. 5:25-26). Today, he might tell a church to make friends with neighbors before meeting with the local zoning board." - both from Christianity Today magazine - Rev. Ireland should have read this article before attempting to come to Rockaway Township.


How about this one - "In practice, RLUIPA has another, very disturbing effect as well: It drives wedges between people in a community, and encourages name-calling.  Ninety percent of Americans profess some religious belief -- meaning that a religious institution's neighbors are overwhelmingly likely to be religious themselves. The neighbors' objection to the church, synagogue, or mosque, then, is not a religious objection. It's an objection about the project's effects -- traffic, noise, and so on." - from an article titled California's Defeat of a State RLUIPA Bill


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