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Still valid questions (never answered in public)

Where is VORTís traffic report? I have heard that they have one.

Will they post the summary of it on their website?

Why didn't they post the summary of the Urbitron study on their website?

Why didn't they use numbers from the existing traffic study at the Nov. 3rd meeting?

Why did they launch personal attacks against David Ireland at that meeting?

Why did they attempt to portray Ireland as a liar by saying "he predicted the 9/11 tragedy" ?

Why didn't they ask him about this supposed Senior Center video comment/ 9-11 date inconsistency while they met with him?

Why did a large portion of the Nov. 3rd meeting consist of VORT portraying Ireland as a liar?

Why has Adam Salberg attacked Ireland for selling books?

Hasn't Adam Salberg's wife Lisa, co-written and sold at least one book herself?

Why did VORT or the Mayor not mention to residents at the Nov. 3rd meeting that taxes are irrelevant to the planning board's decision?

Why have VORT members continued to attack Russell Jones, when Jones has made no personal attacks on anyone?

Was it relevant that Ireland did not explain to their satisfaction what a Food Court was?

Why is the issue of a Food Court relevant at all?

If a Food Court exists, wouldn't that mean that parishioners would not ALL LEAVE AT THE SAME TIME (Adam?) ?

Agilent was allowed to have a large cafeteria on Site, why does VORT think that church members shouldn't be fed there?

I have raised many questions here. They are not rhetorical. If VORT wishes to achieve some credibility, I would hope that they would provide answers for ALL of them.



Regarding the Urbitron traffic report, a summary was published on the web by the RockawayTruth organization:


The Traffic Study



The traffic study clearly states that there are serious concerns regarding the westbound Rt. 80 ramp to Green Pond Rd. It states "the intersection will need improvement due to EXISTING weekday congestion"

This point is made several times in the traffic report. It clearly states that the needed improvements have NOTHING TO DO with any Christ Church traffic impact. This is a fact that can be clearly seen by anyone looking objectively at the study.

This point bears repeating: The Traffic Study's "serious concerns" ARE REFERRING TO EXISTING TRAFFIC, not traffic generated by Christ Church.

And as you will see, Christ Church weekday traffic will be LESS than a corporation's (at the Agilent site) weekday traffic. So for weekday traffic, Christ Church will actually EASE THE TRAFFIC BURDEN compared to a corporation that would locate there.

The traffic study numbers are summarized below. They clearly show that Christ Church weekday traffic IMPACT will be LESS than traffic generated by any corporation that would locate at the Agilent site. Christ Church will bring LESS traffic than Agilent, or any other company that locates there.

Below the weekday numbers are the Sunday numbers. The total impact of the Sunday traffic generated by Christ Church has been compared with the total traffic on lower Green Pond Rd. from a weekday rush hour. There will obviously be more traffic as a result of Christ Church on Sunday morning than without Christ Church, but since the current Sunday morning traffic numbers are almost nothing, the real impact can be seen by comparing Christ Church Sunday morning traffic with weekday rush hour traffic. This comparison shows that there still will be LESS TRAFFIC generated by Christ Church than generated by normal weekday rush-hour traffic through lower Green Pond Rd.


Agilent Corp. AM traffic per hour: 410 cars (350 in, 60 out)

Christ Church AM traffic per hour: 506 cars (315 in, 191 out)

Agilent Corp. PM traffic per hour: 410 cars ( 40 in, 370 out)

Christ Church PM traffic per hour: 199 cars ( 57 in, 142 out)

These numbers show that the school and administrative functions at Christ Church will create on average LESS traffic than a corporation that would occupy the site.


Christ Church:

8:00 AM service 1,306 cars inbound total

(these cars would be moving on Green Pond from 6:30 to 8:00 AM, and from 10:00 to 11:30)

11:00 AM service 1,208 cars inbound

(these cars would be moving on Green Pond from 9:30 to 11:00 AM, and from 1:00 to 2:30 PM)

Because all congregates would not leave at the same time, the total number of cars per hour would be less than 1000.

Compared to


AM Cars PER HOUR currently:

1,116 southbound

994 northbound

Total cars PER HOUR on lower Green Pond Rd. 1,810

PM Cars per hour currently:

1,008 southbound

1,037 northbound

Total cars PER HOUR on lower Green Pond Rd. 2,045

These numbers show that although Sunday traffic will increase because of Christ Church, there will still be significantly less traffic than on normal weekday rush hour on Green Pond Rd.

True beliver


Wow - look at that great traffic study.  You've made a believer out of me.  In fact, I'm going to be one of those lucky people who will arrive at 6:30AM for an 8:00AM service.   You see, I have to get there early to make the numbers work...Otherwise, the study might be considered faulty, and we wouldn't want that, now would we 



Your sarcastic comment is useless except to use it as a point of education for you and those that are like minded:

Get ready for this, I think it's going to be quite a shocker for you...

A certain percentage of ACTIVE church members actually do show up quite early (1 to 2 hours before the service). These include choir members, musicians, bible class teachers, sound technicians and other volunteers. And then of course there's those members of ACTIVE churches that show up early to FELLOWSHIP with one another before the service. You see, in an ACTIVE, ALIVE church, people actually WANT to be there. I realize that for some individuals, this may be hard to fathom. But in reality, it is the absolute truth.



Why does VORT NEED to answer your questions, espeacially in light of the fact the Ireland won't answer simple questions about his application?  After all this is about his application. 

Why won't Ireland answer simple questions regarding growth?





b/c ireland is attacking our town...

tell many (real) churches do you know that have media centers and bookstores??? none that i have ever been to do...and since lisa isn't claiming to be a church - what's your point?

vow of poverty comes to mind...what kind of car does ireland drive christian is he...willing to leave many of his flock in the dust...

taxes might be irrelevant in the legal means...but they are sure relevant to my household...and my neighbors...

since ireland is claiming that his parishoners/employees will support local businesses...the food court is relevant...means they won't be dining out much...supporting local restaurants...and since they won't hire outside their congregation...they won't support much of anything in RT...not even to help pave roads that his parishoners will be doubling traffic on...

and as for us using their facilities...gee thanks...when they say we can...they are offering NOTHING positive for the town...i'd much rather support one of the local gyms in town...that pay taxes...

sorry...this is just a couple of my feelings - and how can answer some of your questions...

Traffic Jam


So the choir shows up early.

The average parishioner will be arriving between 7:30 and 8AM.  How many people do you think will arrive between 6:30 and 7.  Very few.  The rest will be caught in a mega-traffic jam - just as they are in OTHER megachurches (with bigger roads).  Unfortunately, we'd be caught with them.

I'll ask you - do you really expect 435 cars to arrive before 7AM?  The traffic study does.



Media Centers and bookstores?

Churches that are ALIVE have them. I have been to a few. There are plenty of them.

CC not a church in your view? Well, pardon me, but your view don't really matter.

The law matters.

It's a church.

You can't stop them.



first...your grammars sucks... opinion does matter...i live in this town and have freedom of least i'm willing to admit when something is MY opinion...and not "fact"...

please explain what you mean by churches that are you mean megachurches...are you saying the "average" church or temple isn't alive...b/c they aren't in it for profit???



It means they're growing uncontrollably--

Kind of like a dandelion.

Pretty on the surface but not so friendly if you dig deep enough.

Helloooo, Chemlawn!



If the study says, as you claim, that traffic is a problem NOW...

How can it say that it wouldn't be a problem with the additional thousands of cars for the church?

Kim Jenkins


thank you very much.  good logic.



sums it up


This one sums it up pretty good for those who don't realize the truth of the matter:

Craig Maier


Traffic Studies are meaningless unless you know the actual projected membership of this business.  In other words, garbage in, garbage out.  Given the size of this place, coupled with Irelands refusal to cap its membership even at 25000, I would suggest that all of those traffic numbers be multiplied by four or five.  That is probably much more reflective of the actual  situation once this thing is completed (which  I pray every night will not happen).

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