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Post Info TOPIC: flashy headline - no substance


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flashy headline - no substance


01/31/05 - Posted from the Daily Record newsroom
Religious leaders give church plan cautious support

By Rob Jennings, Daily Record

The Christ Church building plan controversy is posing a thorny dilemma for ministers, rabbis and other religious leaders in the Rockaway Township area.

David Ireland, pastor of the 5,000-member, Montclair-based church, has openly courted their support for his proposed mega-church on Green Pond Road -- a 107-acre campus that would feature a 2,512-seat sanctuary and private K-5 school.

Any religious leader who endorses Christ Church, though, risks alienating congregants opposed to a building plan that has generated widespread local opposition.

Moreover, some who ordinarily might be inclined to champion religious freedom are wary of commenting on planning board proceedings and issues, such as traffic and environmental impact, falling outside of that domain.

Rabbi Asher Herson of the Chabad Center in Rockaway Township said he has wrestled with the matter, which has been the subject of more than a year of planning board hearings.

Herson has met with Ireland. He said he respects him. He also knows that his 300-member congregation includes people who are unhappy with Christ Church's building plan.












 




Herson -- who publicly repudiated one person last year for launching an Internet diatribe against Christ Church's evangelical Christian faith -- described himself as "decidedly undecided" on whether the church's proposal should be approved.

"I am supportive … of any group that is there to elevate mankind's moral values. On the other hand, my neighbors and friends and others in the area are faced with a dilemma," said Herson, who lives in Rockaway Township.

The Daily Record contacted 14 houses of worship in the Rockaway Township area and asked for their opinions on the Christ Church building plan.

Two ministers, a Presbyterian and Baptist, said they supported it. The leaders of two synagogues, including Herson, spoke favorably of Christ Church but did not take a position.

The leader of a much-smaller evangelical Christian church on Green Pond Road indicated he would welcome Christ Church but said he didn't know enough about the building plan to express an opinion.

Three other churches also discussed the matter to some extent but did not take a position.

"I want to stay completely neutral. It's up to the citizens, not me," said Msgr. Richard A. Rusconi of St. Bernard Parish in Rockaway Township.

Two churches declined comment. Calls to four other churches were not returned.

Christ Church spokesman Marc Weinstein said the planning board, which will hold an 11th public hearing Monday night, should consider evaluations from religious leaders.

"We would think the planning board would welcome their input because they play an integral role in the affairs of the community," Weinstein said.

Some building plan opponents countered that local churches should steer clear of a debate they insist has nothing to do with religion.

"Churches should just take a neutral viewpoint," said Charles Mueller, a township resident.

Mueller slammed the First Presbyterian Church in Rockaway, which last Tuesday became the first local religious institution to publicly endorse Christ Church and its plans to move to the township.

"You don't live in our town," Mueller said of the church's interim pastor, Richard Sanner, who lives in Mount Olive and gave several interviews in support of the church.

"You only recently came to our area. Your church isn't even in our town. Who are you to be making all this noise about the church coming in here," Mueller said.

The Rev. John Hansen -- whose church, Holy Trinity Lutheran, is located on Green Pond Road about three miles from the proposed mega-church site -- also criticized Sanner's advocacy.

"It surprised me when I read that (from) someone who's only been there three months," Hansen said, referring to Sanner's brief stint as interim pastor.

Hansen, who lives in Rockaway Township, said his 450-member church would not take a position on the Christ Church plan. He noted that some congregants might end up grappling with traffic en route to his church's Sunday services if Christ Church builds nearby.

"More than enough has been said on both sides. Clergy, I don't think, should be in a position for or against anything but rather be a resource for our people," Hansen said.

"I'm surprised he would say that," responded Sanner, "because Lutheran churches take stands on many issues."

Sanner said the decision to endorse Christ Church was made by First Presbyterian's 18-member governing session.

"Technically, I did not speak out. The session wrote the letter. I signed it as moderator of the session," Sanner said.

Sanner said the Christ Church controversy, which has included charges and counter-charges on sensitive matters such as racism and religious prejudice, was too significant to ignore.

Christ Church is mostly black. Rockaway Township is mostly white -- a dichotomy some building plan opponents charge has been unfairly exploited by church supporters.

"We believe churches should be more involved in community justice issues," Sanner said. "We say there's no peace without justice."

Sanner was no longer standing alone by last Thursday afternoon, when Rev. John Hackworth of the First Baptist Church in Rockaway Township also endorsed Christ Church.

"Of course the church would be a plus to the community," said Hackworth, a 20-year pastor who lives in Rockaway Township.

Hackworth acknowledged that his 250-member church, located on Mount Pleasant Avenue, is far from where building plan opponents charge the mega-church would tie up traffic.

"What a church contributes to a community is a positive. We could probably use more churches," said Hackworth, who has attended some planning board hearings and met with Ireland.

The Green Pond Bible Chapel, located on Green Pond Road about five miles from the proposed building site, follows the same evangelical, non-denominational model as Christ Church.

That's about where the comparison ends. The bible chapel, which began in 1967 as a prayer group, has about 300 members. It does not boast a radio or television ministry.

While most of Christ Church's members do not live in Morris County, the bible chapel draws mostly from surrounding communities.

The pastor, Allan Maitha of West Milford, said he wasn't worried that Christ Church building nearby would undermine his ministry.

"The more, the merrier," he said.

He said he didn't know enough about the mega-church plan to endorse it, though he has spoken with Ireland.

"I'm really out of the loop on it," Maitha said.

Maitha said that discomfort toward Christ Church might be attributable to a relative scarcity of mega-churches in the Northeast.

"It's a fear of what we haven't experienced before and don't know," Maitha said.

The pastor of St. John's Episcopal Church in Dover, Margaret Gat, used to live in Montclair. Prior to being ordained, Gat attended a Baptist church that previously used the 900-seat cathedral occupied by Christ Church since 1994.

"I have always been impressed with the development of the church in Montclair," said Gat, though she has never met Ireland and takes no position on the building plan.

Approximately 10 to 15 percent of her 200 congregants come from the Rockaways. The Christ Church matter, she said, hasn't been raised for discussion.

"They haven't said anything about it," Gat said.

Rabbi Leslie Lipson of the White Meadow Temple in Rockaway Township also hasn't met with Ireland.

"We played phone tag for a while and that was the end of it," Lipson said.

Unlike at Gat's church, Christ Church has been a topic of discussion among temple members, he said.

"Everyone's aware of it," Lipson said.

Lipson said he had no problem with Christ Church building in the township. He offered some qualified support.

"If supports means, if they come here, would I be a nice neighbor -- yes," Lipson said.

A secretary at the United Methodist Church of the Rockaways said it has a new pastor who is not versed on the issue. St. Clement Pope and Martyr Church in Rockaway Township declined comment.

Calls to Sacred Heart of Jesus Parish in Rockaway, St. Cecelia Roman Catholic Church in Rockaway, the Church of the Savior in Denville and St. Simon the Apostle Roman Catholic Church in Rockaway Township were not returned.

Herson, of the Chabad Center, said avoiding comment on the heated subject might be the wisest course of action -- and not just for religious leaders.

Herson paraphrased a saying from the Talmud -- that a person gets great rewards for saying great things, but even greater rewards for "not saying things about something he knows nothing about."



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Sounds like a bunch of partial statements to me.


The most telling to me was "If support means, if they move here would I be a good neighbor, then yes."


I think the kind of support that would be meaningful is "I would like this church to move to this location."


But I guess any stretch of the definition will do since they're obviously not getting that!


So I guess the planning board is going to say "Hey all the clergy say you're a good guy, so...okay, we approve your application."



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If the number of people that signed petitions, go to the planning board meetings mean nothing, than support of other churches mean nothing. Come on. We all support churches. We just don't support a church of this magnitude at this particular address.

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Well, I have initiated a formal complaint against the local First Presbyterian Church in Rockaway Boro.  I am in contact with Earl Arnold, who is the Synod of the NorthEast Stated Clerk (the top guy in the Presbytery in the Northeast of the US).  His number is 1-800-585-5881.  If I do not get satisfaction from this gentleman, then I will initiate a formal complaint with the IRS for violations of their 501c3 status by getting involved with political affairs of a town in which they do not reside.


Now, there is another church in the mix, this Baptist Church.  I plan on persuing the same course of action with them as I am with the First Presbyterian Church, except via their internal organization first.


If any other churches or HOW's want to support this debacle, go ahead.  Just be prepared to deal with the consequences of an IRS investigation of the matter.  Just do it and make my day!!



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 no doubt filed at "4 o'clock".



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Earl Arnold, Synod of the North East Stated Clerk for the Presbyterian Church has just gotten back to me.  He has listened to my complaint and will investigate what happened and promised to get back to me in a formal manner.  He has taken my address and will send a formal reply to my complaint.  He says that he does understand the fundamental basis of my 501c3 element of concern and he is similarly concerned.  He was not aware of the situation.  I will keep everyone informed.  Now, it is time to look into the Baptist Church who has taken a position on this politically charged affair.

-- Edited by Rational at 10:11, 2005-01-31

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If there are any churches who monitor this site, the right answer when queried about this debacle is  "we have no formal position on the matter" or "we have no comment."  A word to the wise should be sufficient.

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how is any position taken by any local HOW relevent to the application


 answer.......not at all. what a silly waste of time and a distraction from the real issues.



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I guess we all have our different takes on this stuff...


as I read it, most are saying more churches are fine... this clearly shows the general unsaid principal that "clergy needs to support clergy"... besides the fact, most clergy wishes everbody attended a house of worship & given their vocations & beliefs , why shouldn't they?


However I think their silence supporting cc's "facts" & "plan" is deafening ... Many of these remarks seemed "politically correct" to me...translated.... "we like churches & beyond that, we won't touch this one with a 10 foot pole"...


It is very rare when a church loses its tax free status... priests & pastors pretty well know the limits & often push the envelope... in fact they learn the rules in school... I believe they aren't saying anything with substance because the know the town is 99.99% against the location of the church & yet they sense a loyalty to their fellow clergymen ... these people are in a tough spot



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Quoting RTDweller:


"It is very rare when a church loses its tax free status... priests & pastors pretty well know the limits & often push the envelope... in fact they learn the rules in school..."


 


It looks like Pastor Sanner missed that class.  I suspect that he is in for some serious career counciling from the big guy in his organization. 



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Personally I think Sanner is probably safe as far as the 501c3 stuff goes. I think there is a distinction between actively supporting a political candidate and making comments for or against a politically charged project. I still think it was grossly inproper for him to do so. I would expect any clergy to provide the non-commital general support comment that we welcome any new church into the area, blah, blah, blah, but I think Sanner and company went way over the line chastising us for fighting this application. I still would like to know who the members were that "brought it to his attention". I also think that his statement would have carried more weight if he really had any standing in the town, but being in another town, new to the area, not a local resident, etc. it just makes him and his church another CC shill.

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Well said Chuck.


While nothing about this application has to do with religion, some people have confused the issues to include it as part of the debate, and some have chosen to obsess over it.


However regrettable, it is understandable how the local media may consider it relevent to poll other houses of worship and clergy in the area for their take on things. This may be in part due to some of the rantings of the lunatic fringe on either side of the issue.Unfortunately, many casual observers and readers of the local papers may be led into confusing religion as part of this issue due to all the attention it seems to be getting.Such is life in a world of "sound bites".



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quote:

Herson -- who publicly repudiated one person last year for launching an Internet diatribe against Christ Church's evangelical Christian faith -- 

 Hmmmmmmmm...............It would seem that Pastor Sanner was not the only one to miss a class and have to answer to the big guy.

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OK, I'm not sure where you're going with that, but please, no baiting each other into arguments amongst ourselves...

-- Edited by karen at 13:27, 2005-01-31

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Quoting a Quote of a quote about misinformation:


"Herson -- who publicly repudiated one person last year for launching an Internet diatribe against Christ Church's evangelical Christian faith -- "


I do not know of anyone who launched an Internet diatribe against Christ Churche's evangelical Christian faith, do you?  If you know who did, please let us know and please quote the exact words of that person.


Thanks,


Daniel



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Quoting Chuck,


"Personally I think Sanner is probably safe as far as the 501c3 stuff goes."


We are going to find out about that.  Stay tuned - - - his bosses bosses boss is on the case.  There is also another issue that was mentioned by Earl Arnold - - - that of a potential violation of Presbyterian Canon law. 



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