"...The Rev. David Ireland, a black pastor who leads a nearly 6,000-member evangelical Christian church in New Jersey, said Obama's speech "was good in that it brought some sense of clarity to his pastor's comments, which were a bit rough."
Wright's controversial comments were "very angry, and not academic or even pastoral," said Ireland, whose church is located in Montclair and Rockaway Township.
Wright's sermons, Ireland added, appeared tailored to an Afro-centric perspective as opposed to the "cross-cultural setting" represented by Ireland's Christ Church, which is predominantly black but includes white worshipers.
"Any time we take a slice out of someone's speech, we don't have the full context. All of us can say injustices in America are racially caused, (but) what conclusions does he draw?"
Ireland credited Obama for not avoiding controversy or the broader discussion of race for example, when Obama said his white grandmother occasionally made racially insensitive remarks.
"Sometimes, we think reconciliation is when we don't address race," he said.
"It's probably going to be one of those landmark speeches," Ireland said. "He put the issues right on the table. He also affirmed that's there's some good the church has done for him."..."
With all due respect, I thought that the Obama speech was both eloquent and insightful. Whether it gets rave reviews from Joe Sixpack in Scranton and enables Mr Obama to make some inroads with the working class white voters of Pa may be another story. It did showcase his intellectual capacity however and should have some positive impact on the more thoughtful and more highly educated voters nationally. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on the Senator from Illinois.
Respect given for your opinion, but - 20 years of listening to a bigot and anti-American guy like that and you never noticed it before..??? Please...if you believe his campaign b.s., then I bet rat has a house he is willing to sell you for the mere sum of $900K
p.s. - "more thoughtful and more highly educated voters"
I count myself amongst that group...I take offense at that cheap, unsubstantiated retort. But good luck too you and your choice for the next man to lead lead our Country - I predict a big let down for you and yours next November
The people who surround Obama (who is half white) are the biggest racists and whitey-haters I've ever heard a presidential candidate associate himself with.
He stands there all transcendent as though he has no idea what they're talking about--but whatever it is, he can't possibly disown them.
I agree with you guys. It seems like some convenient selective memory on his part, but I do also agree that he seems like a very reasonable guy. I am just afraid of what will ride his coat tails into office. On the other hand Billary definitely doesnt deserve to ever even get close to the WH again. That pair is a total embarrasment, not to mention as dishonest as they come. On the other side, what kind of choice do we have. An old hot head that will stay the course with all of the current failed policies. I have been a reg republican for years, but there isnt much doubt in the fact that this country is in the dumper right now. So what does the reasonable, educated, member of the American public do? Its really sad.
Obama's got my vote. I'm most of the way through his second book"The Audacity of Hope" and am finding it rather insightful and even inspiring. He is by far the brightest and most articulate candidate left in the race as well as the one who seems to be determined to seek the office more as a true public servant and less of an ambitious self servant. In short, he is more one of us than one of the machine. I can foresee him being what Bush tried to sell himself as, more of a uniter and not a divider. From reading his book one can see where his sense of fairness and his own values would be tempered in decision making with pragmatism and an honest attempt to view issues from all sides. And his speech on the nutty pastor was brilliant and honest.
For those who had not had the opportunity or desire to listen to the entire Obama speech and have just heard selected brief excerpts I can understand getting an entire different view of it. When heard in its entirety it's difficult not to like the guy and appreciate all that he has to offer. To me, his explanation of his relationship with the Rev was actually secondary to the broader subject of race in America and his very candid and thoughtful analysis.
To John Q - sorry if you took exception to my comment about Obama appealing to more highly educated and thoughtful voters. You are evidently an exception. My comment was derived from the exit polling which shows Hillary doing better with the less educated voters and Barrack doing better with those that had a higher educational attainment.
As far as the election goes, we'll have to see what happens. I'm hoping for an Obama/Biden ticket in the fall.
Rockres - no problem friend - I am sure we both want the same things for our Country and families - freedoms, peace, hope, and a brighter future to pass on to our children. That said, I am a Ron Paul supporter, and a firm believer in the Constitution that our great nation was founded upon! To many sacrifices have been made by true American Patriots over the last few hundred years for us to have to suffer the current political personal situation we find ourselves in - a deadlocked, two party system where each talking head can be interchanged with the "other party's" best and "brightest"...
In my opinion, it is time for Americans to wake up and realize that they have been slowly led down the gilded path into servitude to the current Political stalemate of left/right wing same old, same old, with no end in sight...the rich get richer, war mongers prosper, and the sheeple shuffle about waiting their turn to enter the slaughter chute, while wondering what the hell is going on...
Stepping off my soapbox now...sorry for the rant, not really...
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
Thomas Jefferson November 13, 1787, letter to William S. Smith
I have to say that for once I almost agree with Ireland - however I think the bigger point was missed in this entire situation. The Good Rev. White's comments were a blurring of the lines between church and state - one should not preach politics from pulpit - unless one wishes to give up their tax exempt status. I am sure the 'church' would remind us of the seperation between church and state should we come asking to see their bank accounts or any financial records. The line should be clear and strong not bend on a whim. While I agreed with much of what Obama said I think the issue was not race but deeper then the color of ones own skin - but it is just easier to see ones skin and pass judgement inappropriately based upon it. I will tell you that I have had the honor of working with some of Obamas staff, Clintons staff and McCains staff - if the staff they hire is any indication of who belongs in the White house - Obama and Clinton are a close match and both very bright and I would not hire McCains people to monitor to town pound for the weekend - but that is just my opinion. Have a good week! Lisa
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The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
A thorough knowledge and understanding of the inner workings of a system doeth not anger make, but rather provides one with a rational method for dealing with ones environment. So let not your heart be troubled by the insights within my heart and work on gaining a clue (as opposed to your blind political correctness) as to the reality of the things that surround you.
A thorough knowledge and understanding of the inner workings of a system doeth not anger make, but rather provides one with a rational method for dealing with ones environment. So let not your heart be troubled by the insights within my heart and work on gaining a clue (as opposed to your blind political correctness) as to the reality of the things that surround you.
Rat
A thorough perverted knowledge and understanding perhaps.Well articulated baloney is still baloney. You could be a great speech writer for the likes of George Wallace , Hitler, David Dukes, Rush Limbaugh, Al Sharpton.......you know, birds of a feather and that sort of thing?
I guess that I have to teach you by example as you seem to be confused by my statement.
EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity) is based on the concept that everyone in the US should be viewed equally in the eyes of the law when it comes to hiring practices.
Affirmative Action is based on the concept that some folks are more equal than others.
Actually you are wrong about the concept of Affirmative Action. First let me say that I do not think there is a need any longer for Affirmative Action - however there was a time when our country had to right past wrongs and thus Affirmative Action was created, the problem is it was not created with an end point, a mistake of the crafters and one now not easily corrected. Affirmative Action does not mean that some people are less equal then others, simply that for a long period in our history some were denied equal access to oppurtunity because the law banned them from equality.
Craig - you simply make yourself look more angry and less rational with each word you type.
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
In my opinion affirmative action was flawed conceptually from the beginning. The idea that you can give an advantage to certain people based on their race and not at the same time discriminate against the others is entirely illogical. Some people have called it reverse discrimination but to me it's just discrimination in another form. The better approach would have been to provide equal educational, job, college, etc opportunities and then treat everyone equally. True non-discrimination nationwide would be a welcome concept to replace affirmative action.
There was a long period of time where my forefathers were banned from equal access to opportunity; as a matter of fact they were enslaved for roughly 500 years in Egypt. When do people like myself get our recompense for those wrongs?
Rat
ps - The whole notion of Affirmative Action is Assinine and yet remains a mainstay of the American cultural reality.
pss - My Egyptian reference was stated "tongue in cheek" for those who have a difficult time discerning sarcasm from reality.
You guys all hit on the absurdity of Affirmative Action. The idea that you can make up for wrongs done generations ago, by giving unfair advantage now, is ridiculous. To degrade the quality of today's workforce in many areas by giving away jobs to less skilled, less educated, and less driven people has nothing to do with what may have been done to their great, great, grandfathers years ago. As RRes said, the true Afirmative Action, would, in fact, be no action, just guaranteed equality in opportunity, but alas, thats not as politically correct as the actual policies are.
