30MW biomass plant in Mt. Hope? - The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board

Jay R · Status: Offline

30MW biomass plant in Mt. Hope?

MrBill · Status: Offline

Jay R wrote:

Does anyone have details on this???

Pacific Energy announced that it has entered into a Fuel Supply Alliance Agreement with Reliable Wood Products for the supply of up to 450,000t of recycled wood waste as a biomass fuel for the company's proposed 30MW biomass power station development to be located at its Mt Hope Site located in Rockaway Township, New Jersey, USA.

Click for full announcement

Your link does not work, I keep getting the following.

Sorry, you are not authorised to view this page/file as your sessions has timed out.

Mr Bill

Rational · Status: Offline

At least this is an endeavour that will produce polution of the nature that can be regulated (unlike the kind of polution that cc will produce) coupled with the fact that it will add dollars to the community coffers.

-- Edited by Rational at 08:27, 2008-03-06

Jay R · Status: Offline

MrBill wrote:

Jay R wrote:

Does anyone have details on this???

Pacific Energy announced that it has entered into a Fuel Supply Alliance Agreement with Reliable Wood Products for the supply of up to 450,000t of recycled wood waste as a biomass fuel for the company's proposed 30MW biomass power station development to be located at its Mt Hope Site located in Rockaway Township, New Jersey, USA.

Click for full announcement

Your link does not work, I keep getting the following.

Sorry, you are not authorised to view this page/file as your sessions has timed out.

Mr Bill

Try this link

600,000 TONS of biomass sitting in your backyard - regulated or not is a nightmare. At any time, there will be a small man made mountain of bio-materials rotting away on the property.

-- Edited by Jay R at 09:04, 2008-03-06

Rational · Status: Offline

Quoting Jay:

"600,000 TONS of biomass sitting in your backyard - regulated or not is a nightmare. At any time, there will be a small man made mountain of bio-materials rotting away on the property."

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That makes no sense. Why would they let it rot away when they could be immediately shoveling it into the boiler furnace and converting it into invisible gold - - - (30 Mega Watts of electricity). If I did the math correctly, at 10 cents per kWatt Hour, that translates into $50,400.00 of revenue per week.

Nobody lets that kind of money "rot".

Rat

-- Edited by Rational at 20:50, 2008-03-06

MrBill · Status: Offline

Interesting company

http://www.reliablewoodproducts.com/location.php

Gets paid to haul off municipal and private contract wood/brush waste, then turns around and gets paid for the products created by their service when they burn it to create energy. Interesting and innovative concept. maybe I'll shut my company down and get a high paying middle management job with them.

Mr Bill

Jay R · Status: Offline

Rational wrote:

Quoting Jay:

"600,000 TONS of biomass sitting in your backyard - regulated or not is a nightmare. At any time, there will be a small man made mountain of bio-materials rotting away on the property."

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That makes no sense. Why would they let it rot away when they could be immediately shoveling it into the boiler furnace and converting it into invisible gold - - - (30 Mega Watts of electricity). If I did the math correctly, at 10 cents per kWatt Hour, that translates into $50,400.00 of revenue per week.

Nobody lets that kind of money "rot".

Rat

-- Edited by Rational at 20:50, 2008-03-06

and how much do you think they'll have on supply at any one time and where will it be stored (hint - it'll be a small mountain of debris).

How many trucks driving through our town does it take to haul over ONE BILLION pounds of "bio-mass" per year?

Will all the "bio-mass" be trees & brush to be burned or will they be using other processes? anaerobic digestion can be used to create methane gas (yummm say those neighbors).

Where will the soot from a billion pounds of burning trees per year fall? On whose homes?
What toxins will be released into the local atmosphere.
What toxins will leach into the ground water?

Rat - you've got your head up your ass if you think this thing isn't going to do massive damage to our local environment.

-- Edited by Jay R at 12:03, 2008-03-07

-- Edited by Jay R at 12:32, 2008-03-07

Rational · Status: Offline

Quoting Jay:

"Rat - you've got your head up your ass if you think this thing isn't going to do massive damage to our local environment."

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Quite frankly, with all of the human debris that is going to be accumulating at the end of our block, we could care less about the effect that a bunch of rotting biomass will have on RT. We will let you worry about that one - - - we have other more serious problems to consider.

Jay R · Status: Offline

Rational wrote:

Quoting Jay:

Quite frankly, with all of the human debris that is going to be accumulating at the end of our block, we could care less about the effect that a bunch of rotting biomass will have on RT. We will let you worry about that one - - - we have other more serious problems to consider.

So then don't waste your energy commenting on things that you don't care about. The rest of us DO care about our water supply and the air we breath...but you are smarter than us all. Keep yourself focused on human debris and don't worry about your well becoming toxic, ash falling on your home, or the negative affect this might have on your home. You've got bigger concerns about human debris.

ChuckMueller · Status: Offline

I showed the release to someone who is an employee of Tilcon and he hadnt heard anything about it there. They own or lease almost all of the property around there. I'd like to know who came up with that brilliant plan and opposed the Hydroelectric plant for how many years? That seemed like a nice clean way to produce electricity and they didnt want that. Sounds like Excusi and company are asleep at the helm again.

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

I have to agree that the Hydro plant is preferable to this biomass project. A nice clean generating station that would be a huge asset for the town since it would bring in a large share of the state gross receipts and franchise taxes. The Yards Creek pumped storage hydro plant in Blairstown is a big reason their taxes are the lowest around. Does anyone know whatever happened with that proposed project?

Rational · Status: Offline

Quoting Rockres:

"I have to agree that the Hydro plant is preferable to this biomass project. A nice clean generating station that would be a huge asset for the town since it would bring in a large share of the state gross receipts and franchise taxes."

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It is important for you folks to realize that the envisioned hydro plant (like Yards Creek) is NOT a generating plant. It is an energy storage system (quite analagous to a battery). It takes off-peak load grid power and converts it to a head of water to be re-converted back into electricity during the peak loading time period of the grid. When one looks at the basic physics of such a facility, it actually looses energy while performing its intended function, but produces a useful economic benefit by elevating the output power and thus the efficiency of generating stations during low-load conditions. (btw - my father invented the concept back in the 1950s and Yards Creek was the realization of his concept.)

On the other hand, a biomass burning plant is truely a generating plant.

I figure that as long as folks are going to be talking about these kinds of things, they may as well be talking about them intelligently.

Rat

-- Edited by Rational at 15:29, 2008-03-08

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

Rational,

You are correct in that the hydro plant would be a net user of electricity since it takes more electricity to pump the water up at night than is generated during the day however electricity is GENERATED when the water goes down the shafts and turns turbines during peak times. To me that makes it a generating station but maybe that's just me.

The larger point is that it would be a nice clean source of revenue for the town and I was wondering why this isn't being pursued instead of the biomass plant.

Rational · Status: Offline

Quoting Rockres:

"To me that makes it a generating station but maybe that's just me."

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In the vernacular of the electrical power industry, it would not be considered a generating facility, but a peak load leveling facility. And you are right, IMHO - it would be good for the township. But, the powers that be would never allow it to be built (nor anything else similar to it like a biomass generation facility {despite the use of precipitators to reduce emissions down by 99 percent}) - - - just outsder inner city megachurches are unanamiously permitted by our planning board. (That has something to do with the planning boards tiny balls and even tinier brains.)

I predict that neither the biomass nor the peak leveling facility will ever be constructed in RT. I also predict that once Ireland gets settled in, his project will grow even larger than he has indicated thus far and the township will be helpless to stop him. The only thing that might stop ireland would be his inability to obtain voluminious amounts of cash from stupid people. But, I doubt that the cash will stop flowing; there are just too many stupid people out there in the world.

-- Edited by Rational at 21:21, 2008-03-09

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Keep your eyes on the paper - I too have been following this situation and I would not count my chickens YET...

if I were the "hydro" people... and wait until you see how they impact the Christ Church project - BOY OH BOY are you guys gonna get a kick out of this one!

This is FAR from over and someone has some BIG explaining to do....

I would say more but I promised someone a days head start on this - tune in soon for more information.

SMILE it is a GOOD DAY!

Lisa

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

Sounds very interesting Lisa. I took a quick look at today's Daily Record but didn't see anything. Do you know which day the story is expected to be in the paper and if it will be in the Daily Record or the Star Ledger? Perhaps you might be able to share some of the highlights since it's now Tuesday? Thanks.

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Why would you bother reading the Daily Wretched? Check out today's Star Ledgar.

Lisa

Jay R · Status: Offline

Lisa Salberg wrote:

Why would you bother reading the Daily Wretched? Check out today's Star Ledgar.

Lisa

Someone should tell Paula that cc now claims 6000 members. Amazing that their membership didn't go up at all during 3 years of battles, but once they think they have won, they increase by 20%. A cynical resident would think they did not want the government to know the true numbers.

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

By the time I got a chance to stop for a newpaper yesterday, the Star Ledgers were sold out and all that was left was the Daily Rag. Please don't think that it was my first choice. Anyway, I was wondering if someone could provide a link to the article or some highlights. Thanks.

-- Edited by rockres23yrs at 14:26, 2008-03-12

MrBill · Status: Offline

rockres23yrs wrote:

By the time I got a chance to stop for a newpaper yesterday, the Star Ledgers were sold out and all that was left was the Daily Rag. Please don't think that it was my first choice. Anyway, I was wondering if someone could provide a link to the article or some highlights. Thanks.

-- Edited by rockres23yrs at 14:26, 2008-03-12

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/morris/

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

Thanks for the link to the article, Mr Bill. Very interesting although I'm not sure how this impacts the CC project. Lisa, am I missing something? and why did you say that it was a good day?

BR · Status: Offline

I agree with rockres - Did the Ledger only get part of the story - I found nothing in either article to get excited about

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Here is the long and the short of it - the calculations used by the DEP and the definition of "footprint" that was employed for the Mt. Hope Hydro project is far different then the calculations and definitions used in the Christ Church project. The manner in which it was defined and calculated for Mt. Hope Hydro is far more logical and consistant with common sense - thus the township has sent a letter to the DEP saying that the DEP needs to be consistant and reasonable and based on the Mt. Hope Hydro findings the exemption for CC should be vacated.

I have been REALLY busy lately with my other work - sorry I have not been keeping you up on what I am learning -

In other news the Hibernia and Bever Brooks will be FULL c-1 on Earth Day.

Between the C-1 status - new regs for storm water, new regs for building a school on an IRCA location, Mt. Hope Hydro letter issue, and economic issues - I do not think that this project is likely to move forward anytime in the next 5++ years if ever.

Lisa

rockres23yrs · Status: Offline

Thanks for the information Lisa. I guess the newspaper left out some of the behind the scenes activities. I appreciate you keeping us informed.

Rational · Status: Offline

Quoting Lisa:

Here is the long and the short of it - the calculations used by the DEP and the definition of "footprint" that was employed for the Mt. Hope Hydro project is far different then the calculations and definitions used in the Christ Church project.

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Hello Lisa - where have you been all these years? The Mt Hope Hydro project is a standard business venture. CC (Clowns Circus) is a Black owned (pseudo) Church.

Get it?

Got it?

Good!

Rat

ps - And yes, there is a double standard. Is that fact new to you? It has been Standard Operating Procedure for the last 30 years in this country. Guess you never noticed. And, it shall continue to remain that way.

Lisa Salberg · Status: Offline

Rat,
Yet again you make this about race, which it is not - it may well have to do with political pay offs and favors but color is not the issue. You play right into the hate mongers when you post garbage like that.

You are pretty quick to pull the antisemitic card yet your the first to bring race up time after time. Dont you see the double standard you present?

hang your head in shame.
Lisa

Rational · Status: Offline

Lisa,

It is all about race and PC and most certainly you can not demonstrate that payoffs were involved. You are trying to pretend to ignore the elephant in the room. In short, you are sooooo naive.

Rat

-- Edited by Rational at 21:35, 2008-03-12

MrBill · Status: Offline

Rational wrote:

Lisa,

It is all about race and PC and most certainly you can not demonstrate that payoffs were involved. You are trying to pretend to ignore the elephant in the room. In short, you are sooooo naive.

Rat

-- Edited by Rational at 21:35, 2008-03-12

Rat,

While Lisa cannot demonstrate that payoffs happened or did not happen, neither can you. Just like you cannot prove without a shadow of a doubt and before gods eyes that race or religion had anything to do with it. If you have the proof to back up your wild allegations make it public, if not, then you just need to deal with the reality that is around you as you are your own worst enemy.

MrBill

Rational · Status: Offline

Mr Bill,

If it walks like a Duck, and it quacks like a Duck, and it looks like a Duck, well then it is probably a Duck!

Rat

MrBill · Status: Offline

Rational wrote:

Mr Bill,

If it walks like a Duck, and it quacks like a Duck, and it looks like a Duck, well then it is probably a Duck!

Rat

So what you are saying is that you really are a bigot? Last time I saw you I did think you held a striking resemblance to Archie Bunker in his early days

Mr Bill