Morristown denies temple's bid for expansion - The "All Opinions are Welcome, but Sorry no Instigators" Board

Mark B · Status: Offline

Morristown denies temple's bid for expansion

Rational · Status: Offline

I see the following differences:

Morristown already has decent zoning laws in place, unlike RT.

The religion in question is mainstream, not non-denemonational evangelical. The Jewish religion is not going to be afforded any special accomodations like cc is demanding in RT.

It is not a minority owned HOW - - - and that is a huge difference! (ironically, it does serve the town of Morristown, unlike cc's relationship with RT. A good number of congregants live in Morristown in the stated situation)

I doubt that an HOW like that one would hold the towns feet to the fire (as Ireland is doing in our situation) since that would not be the moral thing to do. Some religious institutions are sensitive to civic responsibility and morality, believe it or not. So, it is very unlikely that a RLUIPA complaint will be filed in the Morristown case.

Kim Jenkins · Status: Offline

Rational:

Why should every post bring religion into it. It starts to get old. The fact is the project is large for RT, traffic, infrastructure, environment, ans taxes (not to be considered) This case stated upon their decision was "TRAFFIC" That is all.

There is a different article in the DR Local Section -

11/09/04 - Posted from the Daily Record newsroom
Morristown rejects temple's proposal to expand school

Council members: Addition would have adverse effect on traffic

By Eugene Mulero, Daily Record

MORRISTOWN --Temple B'nai Or's proposed expansion plans, which were approved by the board of adjustment in June, were denied by the town council Monday night.

In a 5-1-1 vote -- councilwoman Michelle Harris-King abstaining and councilman Donald Cresitello in favor of the expansion -- the majority of the council agreed an 8,000-square-foot addition to the temple's educational wing and 35 parking spaces at the congregation's lot on Overlook Road would increase the traffic in the surrounding neighborhood.

"The daily traffic impact is a significant detriment to that area of the community," said councilman Tim Jackson.

Councilman Dick Tighe added: "The parking lot is too big … the impact is very severe on the neighborhood; it's like fitting 10 pounds in a five-pound bag."

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Approximately 100 people -- about half opposed to the expansion -- came out for what promised to be the town's final vote on Temple B'nai Or's plans.

The start of the meeting was delayed after council vice-president Tim Dougherty suggested that attorneys for both sides attempt a compromise. After almost an hour, the lawyers said they had reached no agreement.

Town attorney Dennis Galvin, citing the state's open meetings law, canceled the scheduled public hearing portion of the meeting, claiming it could have a potential influence on the council decision.

Since Oct. 2, 2002, attorneys for the temple and residents opposed to the plan argued their case 20 times before the board of adjustment. After the hearings, the board voted 6-1 to approve expansions, with conditions that banned kitchen and community room expansions, which the temple had sought. Also, a sidewalk would have to be built in front of the facility, and the board recommended the temple building contractors work closely with the Great Swamp Watershed Association on drainage and related issues.

Monday night, Martin Newmark, a Morristown attorney representing the temple, said he was disappointed with the council's decision. He added he will need a few days to determine whether his client will appeal to superior court.

"I had no way of predicting what might happen tonight," Newmark said, after the meeting.

Ho Ho Kus attorney Robert Inglimia Jr., who represented residents opposed to the expansion, said he was pleased with the vote, but predicted the case may not be over.

Rational · Status: Offline

Kim,

I bring religion into it because this has EVERYTHING to do with religion! If you do not believe me, then ask Ireland. He brought his Becket fund lawyers along with a nastygram to the second planning board meeting threating that he would sue the pants off of the town and the planning board members if they do not approve his project because he is a church. Duh. If this was any other enterprise, do you think that we would be doing pushups to get rid of it? Get serious and join the real world. Also, please note that Ireland has made this into a race issue as well - - - not the residents of RT. Wake up.

-- Edited by Rational at 10:58, 2004-11-09

Kim Jenkins · Status: Offline

Rational

I am awake. I've been for over a year. If you feel as you do, so be it. But do not make others think this is about race & religion. If Ireland brought this into it, so be it on his end. But we KNOW what it intails.

We all feel strong about the traffic concerns and infrastructure, environment, impact, etc. I and many others love living in RT, and want to protect what is ours. So keep on the topic of what matters to RT, not what matters to you.

Kim

Rational · Status: Offline

It does not matter what concerns that You or I may have! It only matters what emphasis Ireland wants to apply. He has already set the agenda. That agenda includes Religion and Race. That is a public position that he has taken on both issues. Again, wake up folks and stop fooling yourselves. Of particular importance, - - - do not be so egotistical as to think that your concerns about the environment, traffic, taxes, etc, has anything to do with the agenda which Irland has set and the outcome of this situation.

Condemn the Property Now! It is your only chance.

You can hardly ever win against a man who has played both the religion and race card together. It is like holding 4 kings in a game of poker. It can only be beat with 4 aces (the law of eminent domain). Environment, traffic, taxes is at best part of a straight and the town is hoping to draw on an inside one! Good luck!

-- Edited by Rational at 15:03, 2004-11-09

-- Edited by Rational at 15:08, 2004-11-09

-- Edited by Rational at 15:15, 2004-11-09

Kim Jenkins · Status: Offline

We could around & around, At this point you are not worth it. I know what I am concerned about and I have been stating this for over a year. If Mr Ireland perfers to go this way, it is his decision. I will stand up for what I believe in, regardless.

Kim Jenkins

Rational · Status: Offline

Well, good for you, Kim. That approach makes you feel good and that is great. Irelands stratedgy is designed to win. Yours is designed to make everyone feel good. We hope that you feel good now, but ultimately, Ireland is going to feel great, because he knows what he is doing. As a matter of fact, he has told us what his stratedgy is publically. It is just that you, VORT, and the town are not listening.

He is going to sue the town if he does not get his way for any reason whatsoever, and the lawsuit will be based on RELIGION and RACE. You folks really do not get it or believe him. What more can one say?? Keep on chasing those windmills.

The only way around it is to use the Law of Eminent Domain. All else fails.

Enjoy your good feelings, while they last, Kim.

ChuckMueller · Status: Offline

Not that I want to get in between you and Kim, Mr. R, but...(remember that I am basically one of your supporters). We all know that the Rev will sue RT, regardless. What makes you think that he wouldnt do that if the property was condemned thru ED? He would sue immediately, the same as if he doesnt get his way for any other reason. ED is not an easy thing to legally defend for the town and RT could very well lose if proceeding only on that basis. I still agree that its a good fall back, last resort, move, but there may be other more clearly, legally defined reasons to deny the application before resorting to that. Let's let things play out first. There is a long way to go before anything is decided. Besides, as I have said before, it isnt up to any of us to decide for the town to go with ED.

Kim Jenkins · Status: Offline

Rational

You are the one bringing up the Race & religion - maybe you should just let it go. The more you talk/write about it, the more it stays the topic of conversation.

We have stated from day 1 that it is not the cause for our opposition.

Kim

THINKER · Status: Offline

Everyday you read in the paper another town is concerned about traffic whenever someone wants to build or add on to something. This morning was an example of how limited our roads in RT are if they are blocked. Why must it be about race or religion? Frankly I am not against this project for those two reasons. I'm very concerned about our water and our roads. Five thousand plus people will cause havoc to our community, not because of their color or their religious beliefs. When are people going to realize that? When is Ireland going to see that? I'm sure he would not want to live in a town that is too small for a congregation of 5000+ and maybe that's exactly why he doesn't.

Rational · Status: Offline

Chuck,

I agree, but you must realize that every day that we wait to put the kabash on this thing, the greater will be Irelands claimed damages in court! We are going to get sued not matter what, that is crystal clear. One thing that we can do is limit our damages and the longer this thing drags on, the much greater will be the claims. Besides, the only tactic that will ultimately work is ED, so why not use it NOW? The other tactics are just pipedreams.