http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/proposals/052107b.pdf BEAVER BROOK (Meriden) (No change.) (Denville-AKA 140 Green Pond Rd area-) - Meriden Road Bridge to Rockaway River, including Mount Hope and White Meadow Lakes and all unnamed and unlisted tributaries FW2-NT(C1)
What does this mean... The Beaver Brook is now a C1 waterway and hold all protections that are associated with this classification. The plan CC has submitted and is approved at the planning board level, will not pass the test on the state level, thus it is back to square one.
Have a wonderful day! Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
After a little more reading...some more good news...
The Hibernia Brook is now a C1 Split Rock has complete C1 protection Lake Ames is now C1 and Lake Telemark is now C1
It looks like it is back to the drawing board for Christ Church. In all honesty - had Ireland actually listened to a word we said back in September 2003 he would not have wasted the last 3+ years and millions of dollars of the good people of Christ Church. What a shame and waste of time and energy.
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
I just read the good news but am not quite sure what the C-1 classification means and if it applies to the exemtion they are seeking and to their application in general:
1. Does the C-1 classification mean that the exemption can't be granted?
2. What adjustments do they need to make to be compliant at the town and state levels?
3. Does the DEP need to render a decision on their application and exemption request?
I do not know the answers to all three of your questions, but I do recall that C-1 streams require a certain setback which I believe is 300 feet (among other requirements). This decreases the usable envelope for the property being developed.
If they can't do anything within 300 feet that would severly limit what they can build however I thought the purpose of the exemption was to exempt them from that requirement. Is the 300 foot buffer for c-1 streams something that can't be dealt with via the exemption?
I do not know, but I suspect that ireland will claim that this does not apply to him 'cause he is a so called "church" and this stuff is interfering with his ability to practice his business (I mean, practice his religion).
ps - I am under the impression that the Highlands Act is a separate body of law than that which governs our waterways, but I am not sure.
This is a complicated situation, mostly because this is uncharted area.If you were too look at history and what has been done in similar situations - (nothing is exact due to the newness of the highlands...) you could look at it like this: 1. there are 300 foot buffers and nothing can be done within the buffer zone. 2. the buffers must be upheld regardless of the highlands exemption status. 3. the plans approved by the planning board do not permit for a 300 foot buffer, thus they must go back to the planning board. 4. RLUIPA has no roll here because it is a matter of health and welfare and that trumps RLUIPA.
I will volunteer to pay for a nice big FOR SALE SIGN for the property if they want...
have a nice day, lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Hi, Last night I attended the town council meeting and informed the town council of the significant changes in the law since the conditional approval of the CC plan. The town attorney agreed that the changes in C 1 status and the new law protecting IRSA land from becoming a school without proper clean up are significant factors in the CC exemption. I was informed that there have been letters sent from the town to the DEP regarding the status of the Highlands exemption granted to CC and is now under court mandated review. The CC plans clearly do not include a 300 foot buffer and clearly the site has significant contamination and has many open IRSA cases. Thus it is clear that if the DEP were to remain consistant in their actions the exemption would need to be officially dismissed. FYI CC has still be altering its plans - granted they have to update them to comply with the conditions the planning board has stated but I am sure many of you will agree that nearly 5 months after the conditional approval the fact that they are still not completely prepared with new plans indicates what we have known all along... The town did not hold up a thing, the applilcant was not prepared at any time. It is also not clear at this time which plans the DEP has and which version the town has, they seem to be a few sets of plans off of each other.
The town council was helpful and interested in the information. One police officer even mentioned to me on the way out "Looks like this is it for that plan", I could not agree more.
Have a nice day, Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
This is my first and my final offer to you. I will take that white elephant off of your hands for a Million bucks - - - and not a penny more. My offer expires at the end of this month. I have the feeling that is about as much as you are ever going to get for it.
Now would be a good time for Christ Church to resubmit the application with only internal changes to the existing structures. Take the parking lot basically as is, park overflow on the grass when needed and shelve the school plans until the IRSA issues are resolved. The board would have no choice but to quickly approve such a plan as all the issues have already been addressed. This path would allow CC to make modifications and start holding services within the year.
Then they could address the IRSA problems by demanding that the responsible parties be held liable for the removal of the contamination. Those parties would be the company that caused the contamination and the governing bodies that looked the other way while it occured. There are many who share the blame for that problem, but Christ Church is not in that group.
And if the soil can't be cleaned, let those who hold the blame be required to provided CC with adequate facilites in RT for their school needs. It's really no more complicated than that.
So sad that a town and a state turned a blind eye as the soil was polluted. Sadder still that VORT now rejoices in the existence of the chemicals that pollute the land. It would appear that much more than land is now polluted in Rockaway Township.
I'm not sure that a whole bunch of cars with some of them leaking hydrocarbons next to two c-1 streams parking on grass with no way to prevent those fluids from leaking into those streams is an environmentally sound proposal.
I guess you have never heard of the concept of due diligence. People like you are not used to taking responsibility for your own actions in life. It is always somebody's elses fault and other peoples responsibility to fix the problems at their expense. In other words, it is like saying "I am a real f**ckup in life - - - now what are you going to do to fix it for me?"
Well, forget about it buddy. Now, why don't you go back to fixing your DA problems down there and keep your ass out of situations up here in NJ.
It is bad enough that the property is contaminated by chemicals; the situation would be worse if it became contaminated by that sort of stupid thinking in the human form en masse.
Sure, Mr. Maier, we know your fear of the kind of "pollution" that the folks of Christ Church would bring. What was that phrase you used? Something about "human debris", wasn't that it? But actually, I forget the specifics of that infamous post where you revealed your true colors. Maybe you could refresh our memories and give us some more of those "Maier words of wisdom" on your feelings about "those people"?
And since you mentioned it, I'll point out that my view of Nifong is right there with yours. Although most rightminded folks down here saw from the beginning the travesty of justice that was unfolding, we decided not to rush the streets in protest. We prefered to wait and let the truth prevail. As it surely did in the end. The sad part for you is that you live in a state where Nifong's actions would have been backed by the massive liberal establishment that crushes in around you.
Now could you explain to me again how Christ Church is responsible for the chemicals that are seeping into your drinking water?
I will make it crystal clear for you. I was born in Newark. My family was chased out of Newark by the crime there. I graduated from College in Newark and experienced a number of murders there. My roomate was stabbed in the chest by a bunch of "Youths". And I do not want that kind of Human Debris now hanging around my house out here in the crime free suburbs.
Is that so wrong? And if you don't like it, just go F**k yourself.
By the way Craig F. I see that you didn't respond to the issue of parking cars on grass next to two C-1 streams. I also see that apparently you have no regard for the environment or the quality of our drinking water. It seems that you would rather shift the discussion to other issues. That's sad. Especially since Earth Day was only two weeks ago.
To open up a contaminated site for the purpose of relocating a footprint, which is what the CC plan calls for, is not what is best for the environment. To open the land at all is not what is best for the land, unless a full and complete clean up plan is employed, which is not part of the plan that was submitted to the DEP or the town.
Containment of the site is what is best for the waterways OR a comprehensive clean up plan - nothing in between.
Parking on the grass will not be permitted at anytime, the planning board has already spoken on this matter.
RT has no room for its students at this time as we are in an overcrowded state - kids are in the halls for classes everyday. If CC wants a school they will have to create a space for it themselves, we have no obligation to them in any way.
If CC moved ahead with the puirchase of 140 with full knowledge of the contaimination, that is their matter to tend to and has nothing to do with the town. Taking such action comes with it the duty and responsibility of maintaining and cleaning up such property - albeit there may be financial obligation from the previous owner, who did create the problem when they broke the law over and over again.
If CC submits a plan that does not require the demolition of the building and movement of the foot print and altering of the parking then we would be on the right track, I await such a plan but am not holding my breath.
As for the name calling - that is childish and has nothing to do with the plans submitted or the new law changes by the DEP and the State.
The suggestions for development as posted above by "CraigF" have no basis in fact, logic or practicality and should be evaluated as such.
The DEP needs to act on the 'exemption' it granted without a full investigation in 2004 and was required by court order to re-examine almost 2 years ago. The movement of the DEP and the State indicate that they are moving in a direction to protect the land and water and that this plan has all the elements they are attempting to stop - they need to be consistant in their actions and deeds and pull the exemption.
Pulling the exemption does not mean the plan is dead, simply that the applicant has to submit a plan that is within the guidelines of the law - including 300 foot buffers from the rivers and IRSA sites are cleaned up. I am not sure if the people of CC who are funding this project have been fully informed of the price tag a plan like this is going to be.
Have a nice day Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Has anyone ever verified that this is actually "THE" Craig F. formerly of Rockaway Borough posting here under the user name "CraigF"?The only reason I ask dates back to a time when someone wanted an online debate, but refused to do so face to face in a public venue. The only reason why I assume is because he is not whom he says he is.
Just a thought this sunny and warm Friday morning.
"Parking on the grass will not be permitted at anytime, the planning board has already spoken on this matter." -Lisa Salberg
Really? So this regulation is enforced everywhere in Rockaway Township? Or does it only apply to the Maier named "Human Debris"?
But no matter, there is plenty of parking at the sprawling office complexes that surround the 140 GPR area. Those lots are empty on Saturdays and Sundays and most weeknights too. I'm sure a plan will be worked out where the overflow cars can be parked in those lots with a shuttle to deliver worshippers safely to the sanctuary.
Craig I'm pretty sure that the township already has a law about parking on lawns in rockaway township just ask the numerous people in wml about that also I'm not sure as you mentioned about the surrounding office complexes since the parking areas would be considered private property.
Well you can scratch that idea as my partners will not allow anyone to use our parking lots for the commercial property we own. Far too many liabilities to do so, even if that entity holds it's own insurance policy for the event(s). Speaks more for the sad times we live in when people will sue others for every little thing.
Explain once and for all exactly what your interests are in Rockaway Township. Why are you making our business yours? You are located 400 miles from here. You are what we call a real "Yenta". You are hell - bent on seeing the total destruction of Rockaway Township for some reason - - - what did RT do to you to hurt you so much? I can not imagine but it must have been real bad.
As for your comments about my characterization pertaining to Human Debris, unless you have walked in my shoes, you need to STFU. You have no idea about my life experiences with inner city crime, although I alluded to some of my experiences.
I suppose that you will say that we need to embrace our fair share of crime out here in the country in order not to be defined as bigots.
I do not want that crime imported out here, and so if that makes me a bigot, then that is what I am.
The question of parking is one that should be taken up with the town. Any large property owner has to provide ample parking for its visitors and parking on grass is not permitted at any location I am aware of in the township. You will be ticketed if you park on grassed areas at the mall, this has happened in the past. The endless racist comments from the above poster have proven to be without merit and do nothing to build a community but only seek to create hostility and anger. I have no anger toward an individual based on the color of their skin or where they come from or for that matter how much or how little money they have. The opposition to the CC plan remains to be focused on size, scope and magnatude, regardless of your position these facts have remained constant for 4 years now. The new standards issued by the state will help us to preserve the land and water and to ensure that our children will have clean water. ALL CHILDREN will benefit, ALL of society will benefit ALL means of all colors, religions and races, what part of this do you seem to not understand?
Have a nice day.
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Obviously, you have yet to loose a relative as a result of a mugging at gunpoint by inner city youths. Maybe some day in the future you will. Then perhaps you will comprehend what we are are really dealing with here.
My wife and I have had that experience. Our relative (my wifes uncle) was 85 when he was gunned down for his wallet and his 75 year old girlfried was brutally beaten (but lived). All that they were doing was crossing the street in Irvington where they lived. And no, the "youths" were never caught. That is the typical situation; youths mug and kill old people to get a few bucks for drugs and they are never caught. Real nice, and it happens all the time.
And, that experience does not include the numerous murders that I was witness to in college, including the stabbing of my roomate in the chest by a bunch of "youths" so that they could get his wallet.
I do not want CC's prisoner reform program and drug re-hab out here. Keep that crap in the inner city. For some bizarre reason, the HOW that I belong to does have or need those types of programs. That should tell you something about the cc clientelle. If it does not, then you are an idiot.
And so, if all of that makes me a racist, then I am a racist. I do not want that kind of human debris hanging around the block on which we live. Basically, we want to stay alive and not live in fear of our lives here in RT. To some ignorant folks way of thinking, I guess that expectation is just plain wrong.
To summarize the situation. If you folks do not figure out a way to keep this thing out of here, the future of your township is very bleak.
Actually Craig M I was not refering to your post in this case but the one above yours. When I had answered I hit reply to Craig F - so I was speaking of his post and his racist rants that I am all to tired of hearing. With regard to your experience in a high crime area my opinion is simply this -- high crime is high crime and the color of ones skin is not what commits the crime it is the person themself. I am sorry that your family has had a hard time with crime, it is a shame anyone has to deal with any form of crime. That being said I personally do not think that the people of Christ Church will commit crimes against our community and I have never thought that - I would have concerns if they want to bring prisioner rehabilitation programs to Rockaway Twp, which they have said that they will not. I will state once again my opposition to the project remains size, scope and magnitude.
I hope this sets the record straight.
Have a nice day. Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
Craig, I just read the last line of your post - " If you folks do not figure out a way to keep this thing out of here, the future of your township is very bleak."
Like it or not we are in this together - this is far from over. When was the last time you wrote to the DEP, the town, the mayor, the council, the freeholders, or attended a meeting? Do not wait on anyone else GET ACTIVE and DO SOMETHING - that is why I spoke up to begin with 4 years ago and it has helped. The more you speak up the better it is so PLEASE stay involved we are actually in a good place now - the DEP has new regs that benefit the community - write to them and encourage they not permit exeptions or exemptions.
Lisa
__________________
The truth wins out over slick PR and personal attacks.
The Christ Church Plan for the redevelopment of 140 Green Pond Rd is just too big for the area.
The last time that I wrote to the DEP was about 2 months ago, just fyi. I also wrote to the governors office explaining my observation about what is going on here in RT and expressing my displeasure with it.
